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I explained it a bit earlier, but I think I got it now.
Afrcngy's results don't tell him everything about a players powers, just something.
N2 - he targeted KJ and his result was a kill power
N4 - he targeted me. That was the night I BD'd myself with Killing joke. His result was Controlled Misdirector.
This makes sense. KJ's main power, when he's not making the kill, is that he is a controlled misdirector.
What is the difference between a controlled misdirector and your role?
Why would killingjoke show up as a misdirector on a night that he was performing a kill?
I'm a fan of letting fake vig claims work themselves out. I'm curious if Silver is satisfied by the vig claim. Seeing as he's out for the night,
change vote darkstone
Quote : Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005
But that's exactly what you'd say if you and a Grinner were scumbuddies.
Speling is defikult four mi, sumetimes.
Reasonably cool with your explanations.
Feel bad voting for DB but suspect him most at this point. I like my newish "hold vote until the end unless trying to sway a race" better than my old "use vote as a loaded gun to demand answers" style. Feel weird just tossing a pressure vote out there. Evidence suggests I still view my vote as a loaded gun. I just have better trigger discipline.
Vote Darkstone to get his attention.
Who do you suspect most, Darkstone? Least? Are you mafia? What are your thoughts on how you as a town player (assuming you are or are at least pretending to be town) should respond to this change in game mechanic?
Early Day 2. Two of the dead baddies are voting for Darkstone.
What is the difference between a controlled misdirector and your role?
Quote
Bus Driver - Targets two player's (A & B) position at night. All actions that target A will target B, and vice versa.
Quote
misdirector (controlled) - Targets player A and player B. Makes A target B instead of his original target. Also sometimes referred to as a "mind controller."
Quote : Originally Posted by Sloonei
Why would killingjoke show up as a misdirector on a night that he was performing a kill?
Here's the thing, I don't know the specifics about Afrcngy's power so I can't say 100%. But based off of his earlier post, he doesn't learn what a player does. He instead learns something about them.
Immortal Raven trusted his Night results too much, causing him to back Roy against Sloonei, causing you, me and everyone else to suspect him, ultimately leading to his death, which is what I meant in my big self defense.
Anyway, based on your ISOs, Darkstone both looks like the most likely scum player in addition to being just about the only one who could ruin results I know are wrong.
Now, Darkstone isn't necessarily the mafia misdirector (busdriver or otherwise) but the other powers all seem to exist. So like Af could be a mafia busdriver and Darkstone a mafia doubler but in that scenario Darkstone is still scum.
The only way to get out of Darkstone being scum is if Adam or Roy was the mafia doubler and Af claimed that power and is actually the mafia misdirector (of some sort). Then there are two misdirectors. Similar tinfoils could be made for Sloonei, KJ or Quebbster but I like them better (Sloonei especially) as who they say they are. Sloonei tinfoil would require some strong ghost writing ability and I don't see it.
Point being, it's really hard for Darkstone and I to both be town Darkstone is my top scum read.
Af follows Darkstone for basically not scumhunting or doing much of anything while riding on his doubling actions. I also dislike how Af's doubling was only proven once, on JTrips. KJ said he used it but there was no proof, this essentially amounting to Af and KJ vouching for each other. If Adam was the actual doubler, Af could be the other scummer with Darkstone. Under the tinfoil of a second misdirector in addition to town bding Darkstone, Af and KJ would have to be together...but that's tinfoil.
So rainbow list is
Town
Jack
Jimmy
Sloon
Suspects
KJ - Paired with Af or town
Quebbster - Paired with Darkstone (relies on misdirected cop to prove his alignment) or neutral
Af - paired with Darkstone or KJ, probably Darkstone or town
Darkstone - Paired with Af or Quebbster, probably Af with slight tinfoil chance of town
Back to me. Cause as much as scumhunting is important, if I get lynched, my reads won't help. I have to convince some of the town I'm not scum. So let's look at the two options.
Suppose I am town. Everything I said is true. There are two scummers in the mafia as is usual for this kind of game. (To Sloon and JJJ, forget perfection. We've gone no lynch. There are opportunities missed for blocks and doctoring, for misdirecting the mafia onto themselves, for the sker to kill mafia and we've probably had two townies vig killed. The margin for error is plenty high even with four mafia members. We're just at it. Keep in mind how powerful all these town roles are and how powerful claiming and infodumping is. Our scum ratios are a bit high to make up for this. 9-4-1-1 is typical 15 person setup.) One scummer is misdirecting. One scummer is killing. I've done my best all game including casting the deciding vote to eliminate Roy in spite of evidence against Sloonei. I also voted Grinner, keeping cool about DB's scummy behavior and getting the sker lynched early, which helps the town. I messed up against Raven but Raven was basically Adam plus ten posts of baseless accusation against me so of course I suspected Raven. Never did I attempt to give Adam an out. Never did I say he could be town while voting for Raven. Never did I try to convince players to vote Raven instead of Adam nor did I backpedal and try to act like I was on Adam all along. I put my foot down, saying the two were scum and I wanted the more annoying one gone first. Everyone else disagreed and I was okay with that so Adam got lynched.
DB had misdirected Grinner. Darkstone claims to have not touched Raven and if he had, Raven wouldn't have backed up Adam. Yet Sloonei didn't fail while targeting Raven. Someone misdirected Sloonei, someone who wasn't town. The most logical explanation is that Darkstone did it.
Suppose instead that I'm not a double voter and I am scum. My "tie the votes up" proposal will lead to my death. So why bother proposing it?
This scenario can't be true.
Finally, suppose I am a mafia double voter. I am put in a position to lynch Sloonei and save Roy. Sloonei accidentally gives me an excuse to do so by missing Adam's accusation and not defending himself even though he was around. The mafia also has a misdirector and a jailkeeper and the doc is outed, as is a neutral. Adam has already gone all in defending Roy. We've already fooled Raven. Adam and Roy are both online, blowing up my inbox telling me to switch, that switching will win the game for the mafia.
A Sloonei lynch leaves me, Roy, Adam, Af, Quebbster, JJJ, KJ, Darkstone, Silver and Raven. Jailkeep KJ and kill Raven. The next day starts with 9 players and the mafia has five votes and the ability to gain a sixth by blackmailing Quebbster. The town has five votes. At this point the mafia wins.
Why wouldn't I vote Sloonei if I'm mafia? I wouldn't even have to figure this out cause Adam and Roy would have told me. There's no reason to shoot two of my teammates moments before they cross the finish line.
This scenario can't be true.
If I can't be a scum double voter, I must be town or a scum single voter. If I'm a scum single voter, this proposal won't save me so you have nothing to lose by humoring me.
But if I am who I say I am, this will save a townie and kill a mafia member. Please look at what I've said and realize that my townieness makes sense. Everything I've done matches with the idea that I'm town and clashes with the idea that I'm scum.
Vote Darkstone
I would ask that two players vote with me, leaving 3 votes to lynch me and three to lynch Darkstone. Town's choice.
Jackofhearts constructed this highly elaborate post while he was being lined up for a lynch. He's screaming at us all to vote for Darkstone. This could be a genuine attempt to get a townie lynched, or it could be an effort to save his skin by bussing his last teammate. If we had lynched a townie yesterday, we'd be at 2 vs 2 vs 1 today. I'm not sure if that would resolve as an automatic mafia win, but if not then it would not have been too difficult for jack and his teammate (killingjoke) to sway Quebbster to join them.
@killingjoke: Why have you not killed Quebbster yet? He's been outed as a Neutral role since Day 3 and you've had plenty of opportunities to fire a shot at him, but you never did. Why not?
The thing that's giving me most pause right now is that two of the mafia members (jackofhearts & adamical) went to some pretty great lengths to try to frame darkstone, while none of them (Roy included) made any frequent mentions of killingjoke at all.
I've had a busy afternoon and I have to leave for work in an hour. I've been digging through this thread with all of my free time today. These high pressure end-game lynches are always difficult decisions but I think I've reached a fairly strong conclusion that killingjoke is the last scum member.
His vig claim is not validated by any of the host write-ups or night results. Both of the kills he has taken credit for were the only kills on their respective nights. The "small figures" who appear in the write-up also don't appear to be connected with the act of killing. My current guess is that they're connected with Immortal_Raven somehow, as they appear to save the would-be victim in the Night 2 write-up (as the would-be kill is resolving), and then they appear to carry off Raven's corpse on Night 4 (after the kill has resolved).
In addition to this, none of the dead mafia team members put up any resistance to killingjoke's vig claim, or spent any significant amount of time acknowledging him at all. But each of them accepted the vig claim implicitly while focusing on other targets for their fake suspicions.
One of their favorite targets to gain up on, incidentally, was Darkstone. Jackofhearts and adamic both spent significant time trying to get him lynched. This has been the issue I've gone back and forth on the most. Bussing is entirely possible and fairly common in my experience (obviously I can't speak to how common it is on this website, but I assume it happens sometimes). But the way they both worked to apparently frame Darkstone does not appear to be a bus job. Adam conjured up his own suspicion against Darkstone based on night results (which was also dependent on the night actions of Roy and killingjoke), and Joh spent his final hours in this game trying to spin a case against Darkstone. Both of these cases, but especially adam's, look like sincere efforts to get a player lynched. Bussing is usually done opportunistically, but Adam and Roy (and presumably killingjoke) seem to have gone out of their way specifically to create a case against Darkstone at one point in this game.
In addition to all of this, I find that I simply believe Darkstone. There does not appear to be anything forced about any of the things he's said or any of the night actions he's shared with us. He's made some questionable targets, but he's always just kind of shrugged at us in a way that suggests "it is what it is". It does not seem like he is hiding anything, and I've not found anything in the thread that contradicts any of his claimed night actions, despite my best efforts.
So barring some sort of miracle, I think I will be leaving my vote on killingjoke.