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According to the new Icons rulebook the definition of an attack is "an action that includes an attack roll to determine whether or not one character hits another". This rulebook was written after the FAQ. This means that HSS is now usable with EW and Quake, right?
I'm aware that the definition of an attack hasn't changed which is why it was moronic and non-sensical of them to justify that they weren't usable together by saying that you need to give someone a close combat action to use that attack when really an attack is nothing but a close combat action with dice rolls. No sort of (power action like) activation involved according to the rules. But nonetheless it was explicit in the FAQ so they weren't usable together.
However, I assume that if the new rulebook and the FAQ disagree (which they do in this case) you should trust the rulebook since it came out later than the FAQ.
This isn't the only contradictory thing in the rules (for example Line of Fire has yet to be defined in relation to non-attack powers), but maybe I'm missing something in this case and I want to see what everyone else thinks.
Sorry, but you still have to deal with Close Combat Action and Close Combat Attack. An Attack may be referred to as an Action, but not a Close Combat Action. I'm thinking it's to reference the character taking an action.
HSS says you can make a free close-combat attack (or free ranged attack). The definition of a close-combat attack is "a melee or hand-to-hand attack" which doesn't help at all.
Or are you saying that the incompatibility with HSS comes with the EW description which says "give this character a close-combat action"? That makes sense if you look up the definition of close-combat action in the new rules. Although, as much as I hate when the FAQ and rules contradict each other, I hate it even more when I find another instance of the rulebook contradicting itself, or, rather, its own terminology.
Thanks for the help.
But if this is the case, how in the world is KC Shazam worth 256 points when KC Supers is only a little bit more?
HSS says you can make a free close-combat attack (or free ranged attack). The definition of a close-combat attack is "a melee or hand-to-hand attack" which doesn't help at all.
Or are you saying that the incompatibility with HSS comes with the EW description which says "give this character a close-combat action"? That makes sense if you look up the definition of close-combat action in the new rules. Although, as much as I hate when the FAQ and rules contradict each other, I hate it even more when I find another instance of the rulebook contradicting itself, or, rather, its own terminology.
Thanks for the help.
But if this is the case, how in the world is KC Shazam worth 256 points when KC Supers is only a little bit more?
You hit it right on the head with EW saying "Close Combat Action."
As for Shazam, I don't make the figures, so I cannot answer this question with any accuracy.
Sorry, I just don't get it. When you need lawyers to figure out the meaning behind the meaning it gets a little silly. HSS frm the wizkids site: (1) When you give this character a move action, it automatically breaks away and may move through squares adjacent to opposing characters. This character receives one free action during its movement that it may use to make a close combat or ranged combat attack. Quake (again from the site): Give this character a close combat action. This character's damage value becomes 2 if it is greater than 2. Make a single attack roll, and compare the result to the defense values of all opposing characters adjacent to this character. Each character that takes damage suffers knockback.
Lets break that down more.
HSS: This character receives one free action during its movement that it may use to make a close combat or ranged combat attack.
Quake: Give this character a close combat action. This character's damage value becomes 2 if it is greater than 2. Make a single attack roll
Lets break that down some more:
HSS: This character receives one free action
Quake: Give this character a close combat action.
Now look at Charge: Give this character a power action. Move this character up to half its speed value and then make one close combat action as a free action.
Why does that work with Quake and EW but HSS does not? Both charge and HSS say Give this character an action and a free action. One says give a move action and get a free action and the other says give a power action and get a free action. Now both free actions equate to close combat actions, so ummmmm SO WHAT? What's the confusion? I'm totally in the dark as to where this is all running afoul?
Lets break that down some more:
HSS: This character receives one free action
Quake: Give this character a close combat action.
You are making it too simple (never thought, I'd say that... most people tend to overcomplicate things with rules questions). The the specific nature of the free action is *very* important. Specifically, HSS option 1 grants a free Close or Ranged Combat *Attack* while Charge grants a free Close Combat *Action*. Just by checking the glossary, you can see that combat attacks and combat actions are two very different things.
Now by checking the PAC, you see that you need to give a figure a Close Combat Action to use either Quake or EW. Since you have already given your figure a Move Action to acitvate HSS, the only other types of Actions it can take that turn are Free Actions. Since the Free Action in HSS option 1 only allows an Attack, you can't use Quake and EW.
Looking at Charge next, you give the figure a Power Action to activate the Charge. Charge grants a free Close Combat Action, so you can now use Quake or EW. You still can't use things like CCE, though, since those take a Power Action to activate (and you already used your one non-free action to activate Charge).
But Krypton is right. I didn't realize it before but the website does say that HSS grants a free action. So now the question is which one to believe. Both the website and the PAC are official. I would say to believe the website since they can update that thing anytime they change the rules while they can't update the PAC anytime they want since its a digital copy of printed material.
And for Krypton: You are rightly confused. Wizkids is contradicting itself. The latest PAC card says that HSS grants a free attack while the website says that HSS grants a free action.
But Krypton is right. I didn't realize it before but the website does say that HSS grants a free action. So now the question is which one to believe. Both the website and the PAC are official. I would say to believe the website since they can update that thing anytime they change the rules while they can't update the PAC anytime they want since its a digital copy of printed material.
And for Krypton: You are rightly confused. Wizkids is contradicting itself. The latest PAC card says that HSS grants a free attack while the website says that HSS grants a free action.
If you are going to quote something (even the website) please make sure you quote and read the whole thing. Specifically, "When you give this character
a move action, it automatically breaks away and may move through squares adjacent to opposing characters. This character receives one free action during its movement that it may use to make a close combat or ranged combat attack. It can continue to use the rest of its movement after making the attack."
I bolded the part you guys are fixating on, then colored *the rest of it*. That free action is specifically used for a ranged or combat *ATTACK*. As we have already shown you, Powers like Quake and EW require a Close Combat Action to activate. Since the free part of HSS option 1 is *not* a Combat Action, you can't use those Powers with HSS option 1.
Meanwhile, Charge does grant a free Close Combat Action. This is why you can use EW with Charge but not with HSS option 1.
Oh ok. I guess I'm still trapped in the circular logic of the defintion of the word "attack". Lets see if I can roll to break away. No! The Plasticity of this game has me trapped! No PC or CSA in sight! Guess I should roll on the floor from now on and then say that I need to reroll on the table for it to count (if I don't like the result).