Hey guys, (I actually started this topic somewhere else but I want to know what everyone else thinks)

I'm starting this thread for one main reason. I'm fed up with the declining quality of Marvel comics. Personally, I am a big fan of the X-Men titles and have been for the past 14 years.

Unfortunately, over the past four years Marvel has decided to severely reduce the quality of its comics. Primarily, I'm talking about the words and discussions that take place in the issues. Have any of you guys picked up on the fact that it only takes a few minutes to read a single issue? It used to be that it took 10 or more minutes for me but now it's more like 3 because the "word count" has significantly dropped. I counted the "word bubbles" and boxes describing what was happening and came up with the following results.

In a random older issue there were 287 bubbles and boxes in total.

A random current issue only had 145.

Is this something that we should tolerate especially considering the price has just gone up 50 cents again?!?! That, plus the increase from last August makes a total of $0.74. Compare that to the previous 14+ years when it only was raised by $1.00.

Please respond. I believe this is an important matter for all of us.

Thank you.


PS
And get this last bit of news. It was announced ~2 weeks ago that Marvel will now be advertising for companies in the stories themselves (and not just those Nike logos). You will soon see specific trucks and products that were never there before. It probably wouldn’t be so bad if not for the fact that those ads are supposed to help fray the cost of production. So what’s up with this price increase? Please, think about what this truly means for the comics that we enjoy.

Well i must agree with this. When i'm reading my marvel, i read each in like 5 minutes, but when i read my city of heroes, it takes me about 10 minutes. This is both good and bad for me. This is good because in some comics, i find myslef being bored to death with boring dialouge. But this is also bad becasue some dialouge is good and it is really needed. But i must say that every now and than i see a marvel comic have a lot of dialouge(mainly new avengers/ult. spiderman). But i do not know about the increase in comics since i have just started reading back in september.

I think comics as a whole have gone from generally being wordy to allowing the reader to make the connections themselves.

Take for example, Chris Claremont's original X-Men run. His issues were so wordy, because he connected the dots for you. He built up every panel for you, and then threw the dialogue in there. It's a big difference from today's comics. We no longer have to be told that Wolverine has adamantium claws, and an unbreakable skeleton, that Colossus can change with a mere thought from flesh and bone to nigh-indestructable organic steel, and that when Nightcralwer teleports he leaves in an imploding cloud that leaves a smell of brimstone. Look back the the first 68 issues of the Uncanny issues after the Giant Sized Special #1, and you will see that these things were mentioned in every single issue. I 've been reading the Essential X-Men books, when not trying to read my weekly reads. Sometimes the wordiness gets a bit tiring.

No longer is that the case. Most established comics are written as though you already know all this. So the comics are written in away that the readers are left to use their imagination more. With some knowledge of the characters' backgrounds, you are able to connect the dots yourself.

I think that this style works for today's faster pace life style. Sometimes reading about Wolverine's unbreakable bones issue in, and issue out gets tiresome. The repetitveness waers out quickly.

If there's a need to get new readership (as comics do frequently) they establish events that allow for jumping on points, to acquaint the readers with the comics.

Funny you should bring this up, though. I just had this conversation with a friend of mine about 2 weeks ago. His complaint was the same as yours.

Zero posts? And your name is "Improve Marvel"? Fishy...

Anyway, other than the Ultimate titles I've been liking Marvel alot lately so I can't say I agree with you. And inflation happens, which is why so many people wait for trades now, because they are cheaper and contain the whole story. Marvel is finally giving attention to other parts of it's Universe besides the Xmen with Annihilation and most of the recent miniseries. I'm happy with Marvel. DC on the otherhand has completely lost any interest I once had in its universe.

Word count and quality are not the same thing. It seems to me you're talking more about the value of a comic based on how much time it takes to enjoy rather then the actual quality of the stories which is much more subjective and is harder to prove through number crunching.

As for the issue at hand (no pun intended), it's obvious to anyone comics are less wordy, and I have to agree with Darth Sabre's comments on comics have a lot less exposition. In fact, I was going to elaborate a little more, but I'd just be repeating him, so I'll leave it at that.

Well, put this in a business sense.

DC, owned by Warner Bros., can throw out the money to bait all the really good writers when needed. IMO, they have the better talent. Their books will be better and I believe on the whole they are. Marvel has the more accessible characters but some "ok" talent.

Yet the paradox remains....Marvel outsells DC. Why??? I just put it up to stubborness. I read posts all the time that I buy the title "X" but I haven't liked it in a while. And I think that is why a lot of new titles fail as well. No one wants to try anything new. Always Xmen, always Superman....and nothing else.

It's sad, really. A lot of good books go unnoticed by the masses.


Take that for what you will.

I agree with bubblehead, many great books aren't read. Lately i've been finding myself just reading a random comic at my comic book store and just checking it out. If it's good, i start picking up issues, and if it's not good, i look at others. If i didn't do this, i'd be home looking at my comics with just spiderman and the avengers. But now i have many different kinds of comics and i find that to be great.

I disagree with this premise completely. You're equating quality with word count? Here are a few reason why that's completely ludicrous:

1) It used to be that every use of a character's powers had to come with a description of the power, in speech or thought balloons. "You may have knocked me down, Mandarin, but with my repulsors set on a wide-spread beam, I can throw this mountain of rubble... BACK-- IN-- YOUR-- FACE!!!!" Do we really need that back? I'm not sure I was ever so young that I needed this.

2) Since Joe Quesada signed on as Editor-in-Chief at Marvel, thought balloons have been outlawed. While this has been a matter of some controversy, it's a choice I'm a big fan of. It forces writers and pencilers to do their storytelling with dialogue and images, and I'm loving it. It also removes some of your precious words from the count, though. Those lost words are primarily things like "If only I can set my repulsors on a wide-spread beam, I can throw this mountain of rubble... BACK-- IN-- MANDARIN'S-- FACE!!!!"

3) Comics have become more of an artist's medium in the past decade. Thank goodness. The art is why I love comics. It is, in fact, what makes comics comics. I'll read almost anything illustrated by Mark Bagley, Bryan Hitch, Patrick Zircher, George Perez, and Alex Ross. No dialogue necessary.

4) You want lots of words? Read Ultimate Spider-Man and Thunderbolts. You'll be pleased.

I quit comics entirely in about 1991, and just came back about three years ago, thanks largely to HeroClix. As I look at issues from the mid-90s, I think I left at just the right time--and also came back at the right time. Art in comics is amazing right now. What you call a decline in quality, I call a golden age. You want word count, read a novel. I can recommend a few good ones, even superhero ones.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that the only X-book I read is Astonishing X-Men (of course). Maybe my lack of current X-knowledge is the reason I think Marvel is doing well.

By the way, you want some great Marvel? Here are a few unequivocally great books to read:

Astonighing X-Men
Thunderbolts
Iron Man
Runaways
Young Avengers
Squadron Supreme
Captain America
Moon Knight
Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimates
Ultimate Fantastic Four

First of all, I support comics as a medium itself, not individual companies like Marvel or DC.

As I read it online, DC has "an old man stench", while Marvel Chars are more appealing to common readership, let's face it, is easier to relate to Spider-Man with his messed life, than Superman who is an alien and almost god-like.
And like it or not, Marvel sells more, their characters are more popular.

I agree with your post, about people not trying something new, some european comics like Blacksad and Sky Dolls are really good, and most people doesn't even know about them. I hope you guys could at least try them, and see for yourselves.

And I concur with Darth Sabre, the days of "over-explanative comics" are done, that's why Claremont comics are so boring. The narrative ways have changed, and as always... adapt or die.

Spiderman is a kid who is a photographer and genius scientist who dated and married a model. I'm sick of people calling him an easy to relate to down to earth guy.

As far as behind the mask goes i'd think Clark Kent is a lot more relatable then Spiderman, i don't see how being from another planet or not getting hurt by a baseball bat changes that, considering he was raised here.

Staying completely above the undercurrent of DC vs Marvel, many rebuttals to your original post have already been presented more eloquently than I could hope to surpass, however let me present a few more for my fun, at least.

Particularly in regards to the cost increase, bear in mind that the printing of comics is becoming more and more aesthetically pleasing and of generally higher quality than in the past, especially when you look at the vast increase of color quality as it has improved over the past. Plus, as in all businesses, costs will always increase over time. It's called economics and making a buck.

As far as the less explanatory style of comics, all mediums evolve in style and this is merely an extension of that in the comics medium. Both writers and artists are expanding their abilities within this art form and different approaches are bound to have their time to shine. The current popular style involves a more nuanced narrative style which believes the reader is familiar with both the characters and style and as such needs less "play by play" as to the action. The current style also features the art much more than in the past. Not to say that there weren't excellent artists and storytellers in the past, but the prevelant style was not such as it is currently.

It seems you have a couple of options. Either find current comics that fit your personal preferences better or pick up some of the reprints of yesteryear. Many of these are very affordable now, especially Marvel's Essential line and DC's Showcase line.

Best of luck in resolving your current dilemma with Marvel's output, but hopefully you will continue reading and find some books which suit you well.

I think Marvel and comics in general have improved over recent years. Both companies have tried to showcase their second and third tier heroes and villians. I really like that. I also think the story telling has improved. My biggest problem has been is that Marvel has so much good stuff I don't have enough money to buy all that I wan't.