Last night at my event... something came up that I have yet had to confront as a judge. In the last round of the event, one of my players (Player A) came up and asked me about a ruling on what he suspected were hot dice. He had his rulebook in hand and was looking to see if he could verify what he thought was the correct ruling. While he was looking through his rulebook, I brought up the pdfs that I could... rules and eratta and tournament rules... and searched them for an answer. Between his rulebook and the pdfs, I found none.

Basically... his opponent (Player B) was rolling hot. 'B' wasn't dropping anything less than a 9, consistently. So, 'A' felt that there might be something underhanded happening and asked to roll 'B's dice for the remainder of the game. 'B' was not happy about this request and proceeded to basically pitch a fit about someone requesting to use 'his personal property'. So, 'A' brought the situation to me... explained what was going on... explained what he thought the answer was based on his past experience... and asked about what could be done. All the while, 'B' was arguing with 'A' and myself about it. I feel that I'm a more than reasonable judge, so i made the ruling that all dice currently in use were to be put aside and new dice were to be used. Unfortunately, the situation didn't resolve itself as I'd hoped and the tension continued well after the buzzer rang.

In the mean time, I would research what I could and if 'A' could find it as well, to bring it to my attention so we can use it for future reference. 'A' had made mention that he had experienced this before and that Hair10 had made a ruling on this at WizWorld or another convention... forgive me I don't recall which one he'd mentioned. So, in short, I'm asking if is there an official ruling on this type of situation, and if so, where can I find this information.

Thank you in advance.

I don't know if there is an official ruling, but this is definitely in the arena of house rules.

We had a hot dice problem at my venue once, so we instated the following rule:

Use the same dice for every roll, all day. Your opponent may use your dice at any time.

Funny, When I faced the hot dice user, I used his for the whole game, and never missed. The tournament was for a KC GL. We never saw those dice again.

LAAAME...why would you cheat playing Heroclix...

I have NO problem using any other dice...I just prefer that theyre white

any one who cheats intentionaly at this game deserves, the works

There are rules against cheating and any loaded dice would be covered under those rules.

As for specific "dice rules", those are up to the judge running the event. WK does put dice out at all maps at the cons but again, it's up to the judge running the event (there is no specific WK rule that states that players must you the WK dice during an event). Some judges opt to use the WK dice. I think it's just easier for them because it avoids all potential arguments.

Even when WK was putting dice out and I was running the Invitationals, I still allowed players to use their own dice. Players are superstitious about what they bring to the table, so far be it from me to tell them they couldn't bring their standard "stuff" along. My standing rule, both at cons and at my local events I ran, was "you are free to use your own dice but your opponent is free to use your dice as well". Personally, I think the threat of getting bested by your own dice (as well as a greater risk for getting caught) is enough to keep people from coming to the table with loaded dice.

But again, it's completely subjective and up to the judge running the event.

I would have insisted that the player with the supposedly-hot dice at least allow the judge to test roll them say, a dozen times. If they roll 9+ a dozen times, roll them another dozen. After that, if they've been consistent, I'd say they're loaded. You're well into astronomical odds at that point, and that's not even counting the behavoir that brought it to the attention of the judge.

The idea of letting both players use dice up front is good, but once you're into a game and a player is cheating, he'd be ejected and the other player win by default. Swapping dice is a preventative-- once somebody's cheating, they're cheating, they're out.

If you cheat at this game you have major issues that cannot be solved with new dice. Seriously, are LEs worth that much to you? They arent to anyone else.

Pet Peeve time...

I was in a tournament a while back with Galactus as a prize. Yah, real big deal stuff there.

One player brought loaded dice. However, instead of "rolling hot," he played the "superstition" card -- switching in the loaded dice for big rolls and then going back to "normal" dice otherwise.

Funny thing is, I still beat him -- he was at least smart enough not to use the loaded dice consistently once he was losing. It wasn't 'til the next round that another player watched more closely and realized what happened. He wasn't smart enough to put the loaded dice away after he was eliminated from contention, apparently.

Before then it was just a pet peeve when players would swap out dice repeatedly in a game, because it introduced an unnecessary delay. But ever since that point, I've had a certain mistrust of anyone who decides to be "superstitious" and rotate through multiple sets of dice in a tourney.

(As an aside... whenever someone thinks I'm rolling particularly hot and wants to use my dice, I usually turn around and start using theirs. )

-J

What you fail to take into account is the thought process of a cheater, where they actually justify what they are doing, and don't see it as "wrong". Presuming they have some kind of moral code will get you nowhere.

Likewise, when LE Norrin Radds are selling for $40 bucks a pop, it's easy to see how some unscrupulous individuals could hit a venue or two a week and come out with a hefty profit margin after auction sales and whatnot. The incentive is there, it's just beyond most of our internal programming to do so.

On a side note, my wife picked out some dice from a local game shop (out of a huge dice bin)for our weekly DnD campaign. She picked them out because they were of a purple shade and looked "cute." Several weeks later we learned that one of the pair was loaded, or rather printed with 4's,5's and 6's. We went back to the ship and told the owner of the store who proceeded to root through the bins, find the others like it, and chuck them all into the garbage, right in front of us. Rep for him.

Bottom line is this. We didn't know we had purchased a loaded die until long after the purchase. Now I look at every side before I buy, and I'm always looking at my opponents dice as well, just in case they "happened" to purchase a faulty die.

I want to just clarify something here. I don't think "hot dice" and loaded dice are the same thing. Sometimes people just have a lucky day. I think anyone who has played in any significant amount of tournaments can attest to the fact that sometimes it just seems like a person can't miss. I think it's kind of lame to call an opponent out simply b/c they're rolling well. One game is not nearly a large enough sample size to determine loaded dice and that's an allegation that shouldn't be thrown around lightly. I think a player "getting hot" and rolling well is just part of the game... just like in basketball with shooters. Do you see basketball coaches call timeout and ask to switch out the ball when someone starts hitting a lot of shots? Or requesting that the player be tested for illegal substances in the middle of the game? That's not to say there aren't some people out there w/ loaded dice b/c it happens. It's just that it's not as simple to prove as "you're rolling really high, I think your dice are loaded".

With that said, just about everywhere I've ever played has had the "You can request to use your opponent's dice" rule. I remember one place I played, I was in the finals against a kid that was younger than me (in his teens). He didn't like the "looks" of my dice before the tournament and asked me to switch them. Even though I had used the dice all tournament (and also pretty much every tournament I've ever played in) and there was no reason to suspect they were rigged (we hadn't even rolled for map yet) I went ahead and switched them. Halfway through the match, I'm winning and my opponent says "You're rolling really high can you change dice again" and at that point I simply told him that I had already switched once when I didn't have to and that I wasn't going to keep swtiching until I found dice that rolled poorly. I told him he was welcome to use my dice which he did and promptly missed and then scowled at me like I had taken the magic away from them or something. Point is sometimes people will look for any reason to claim they're being cheated and trying to appease them does no good. In the future I'd just say that either the opponent can use the other player's dice or they can both use starter set dice.

Loaded dice definitely exist and even though it rarely happens, players definitely can demonstrate the gall to use them. I've encountered loaded dice at a venue once.

The players at this venue wanted to "rough up" the cheater who was also a liar and braggert. The situation became very tense and nasty and although I was only visiting at the venue I became involved in it because the player with the dice was also visiting. After I made it clear I didn't know the guy and that I was adamantly against cheating I had to explain that giving the guy a beating would probably complicate everyone's lives to the point that revenge wasn't worth it.

If you look at online magic/novelty stores you can find loaded dice for sale.

I'm all for the rule that you should be able to borrow an opponent's dice to play with if you notice that there is a ridiculous absence of low rolls. Its just kind of sad and pathetic that anyone would have to cheat at Heroclix. I will examine my opponent's dice more carefully to make sure that his or her dice have all of the pips in all of the correct places.

The biggest point to remember in all of this is that as Judges/Envoys our main goal is to create a fun and fair atmosphere to play in. Just because it is not in the rule book, is no reason to not invoke a ruling if it will mitigate perceived unfairness.

The other thing to notice is the reaction of the player who was challenged on his dice. Was it because he feared being caught or is he just churlish or superstitious? This is what the generally accepted rule about not forcing someone to use specific dice, but allowing them to use their opponent's dice if they choose is for.

I agree 100%.

Seriously - If you cheat at heroclix - you deserve to have your whole team burned in front of you on the street outside the venue.

It should be taken like cheating at poker - in the 1870's.

I think my dice are really hot. I can't roll better than a 4 or 5 most of the time with 3 or 4 crit misses throughout a game...

Oh wait, every set I use is like that.