Not so much a question, as I'm looking for input for something that just popped into my head.

Since the Surfer changes between HSS and his SP (which only allows HSS option 1 for range only, I believe), if Surfer Crit Misses (or hits a Mystic, takes damage for any reason, etc) DURING a HSS action which pushes him onto his SP, will he be able to finish his movement of HSS?

Normally, if a figure loses HSS during the "hit&run", they can't "run".... but what if the power changes to something that is almost the same or not quite?


In theory, it would be yes.... but it is an entirely different power. I see it the same way as if a Colossal (or Duo) figure used Flurry to hit a Mystic and lost Flurry before the second attack... they couldn't switch to the "multi-attack" second attack instead (at lower stats) because that's a different power/ability.
Yes, it's stretching it, but that's the closest I could come up with. Can anyone else toss in another point of view?

I would say (<---opinion) he keeps moving...he was using HSS before the miss/Mystics, and he's still using HSS (but yes, from a different power) after the miss/Mystics.

Good question though

Based on the fact that it is a completely different power, I'd guess no, he'd have to stop. The SP grants HSS, but only option 1 and only range, so it's technically not HSS. Take an example even outside of your Colossal scenario... someone crit misses/Mystics off of Flurry onto another move power. Even if it were similar to (or granted a modified version of) Flurry, the action would stop as that specific power was no longer showing.

I'll throw my lot in with Silent Shade. Different name, different power, different effect. Surfer would have to stop.

Imagine for a minute, that the Disbanded BFC is in play, and a player has used Outwit to counter Surfer's HSS. During the same turn the opponent deals 1 psychic blast damage to Surfer who takes a single click and turns his dial to his Special Power click. The argument could then be made that Surfer had his HSS countered but not his "Cosmic Speed," which is another power entirely, as noted by its inclusion on Surfer's character card. The following turn while the Outwit was still active the player could still use the Cosmic Speed to move and attack. If somehow Surfer regained HSS he couldn't use it, as it is considered countered thanks to the Outwit.

He goes from "using" hypersonic to possessing it. I'd say he keeps moving.

if a crit miss occurs or a mystick retaliation occurs......the damage from these are done after the action resolves and the action does not resolve until AFTER the rest of the move action occurs. (the attack was a free action during a power action, the power action resolves after all the movement has been used or the user says they are done moving--after this you would give them the click for the crit miss or mystick retaliation)

And this is exactly my point..... does the power change alter his ability to use it?

In anonym0use's example, he's right... OWing HSS is NOT OWing his SP, so that would be different.

I suppose the same question would come up if a SP included Flurry and a fig got Mystic/Crit miss that knocked onto a regular Flurry... could he make the second attack?
I'm going to ask this on the judge's forum when I get home.... see if I can get an answer (I'll post it here if/when I get one).

Actually, the Mistics or Crit miss is once the ATTACK resolves.... it's immediately after the Mystic is damaged.
A HSSer could not continue his move after making the attack without taking the click first.

Another example would be the Red Skulls cosmic Cube power
If he "uses" Outwit or Perplex and he boffs the roll and takes damage, should he lose the effect of Outwit or Perplex? He still possesses the Cosmic Cube power (on his first few clicks) which grants Perplex and Outwit, but they are not on the dial, so to speak.

He stops.

This would be no different than if you were using Brainiac adjacent to another Superman Enemy.

You use Brainiac's Outwit to Outwit something. He gets hit losing Outwit and then you declare that the Outwit provided by his TA is now in effect keeping X outwitted. Nope.

In fact, Surfer's Special Power does not allow him to just use HSS. It is a limited form of HSS where you can't make any close-combat attacks.

His Power says He uses Hypersonic Speed, but it has restrictions on its use.
Like the CSA team ability (pre LOSH rulebook), It gives you probability control, but you must give a friendly figure a token.

This is a really good question. The Special Power states that can use Hypersonic Speed . It's in a limited fashion, but it is still specifically stated to be HSS rather than simply an effect similar to HSS. So I cast my vote that he gets to keep moving as long as he was using HSS Option 1 to make a ranged combat attack when he lost HSS.

Page 12 from the Rule Book:

"A character possesses a power and that power is in effect when it appears in the character's stat slot."

HSS appears in Surfer's stat slot on 1 click.

His Special Power appears on 3 of his stat slots.

From page 13 of the rulebook:

"To use one of these powers, the player must declare that the character is being given an action to activate the power or that the action given to the character will activate a power."

To use his Special Power he must activate it.

From the PAC:

Batman Ally:
"Batman Ally team members may use Stealth."

Its already been established that using a power isn't the same as having the power. Batman Ally can't use the Stealth effect to use Ambush thanks to:

Page 39: "Being able to use a team ability... or a power (as some team abilities and special powers allow a character to do) does not satisfy the prerequisites for a feat; the character must possess the team ability or power."

"Use" does not equal "have" so there would be no carry-over from having HSS to gaining a Special Power that lets you "USE" HSS.

At least thats the way I see it.

He still has the use of HSS, so he can keep moving.
Nuff said.

It occurred to me that finding the specific rule (the one that says that if you lose HSS after your attack you cannot continue moving) would shed quite a bit of light on this, depending on how it was worded.

Except I can't find the rule/ruling. The related rule that only allows the character to complete the amount of movement showing on its dial if it still has HSS is also MIA (from my initial search, anyway).

I expected to find something like the entry for Flurry from the General E&C:

If the HSS entry had something worded like this, I'd say that since the character lost the power, they'd have to stop. However, like I said, there's no such entry in the E&C (or the FAQ, as far as I can tell, definitely not under HSS).

This leaves me very curious where this commonly known "rule" is actually listed.