The question is simple from a rules standpoint: do the feats Submerged and Camouflage, by nature of expressly blocking LoF, prevent scenario Galactus/Spectre/FingFangFoom get a return ranged combat attack on that figure? The reason I ask is that they ignore terrain but do NOT ignore feats, and the feat is the source. I understand perfectly that a Pulse Wave retaliation is still a way for the scenario figure to overcome this if the hidden figure is within half range...but what if they're not? Does the Scenario figure have to pick other targets for the ranged retaliation?

I'm hoping there's some kind of erreta about this, because while it looks perfectly legal in the rules, it seems like a horribly abusable unintended consequence...

The LoF is blocked by an interaction between the feat and the terrain, because the feat only functions in that capacity when the figure is appropriately positioned in relation to the terrain. Since Galactus/Spectre/FingFangFoom all ignore terrain in the scenario, there is no interaction of those feats with the terrain in regards to them drawing a LoF.

No different than the old ruling that used to allow Superman Allies, Ultimates and figures with Trick Shot to target Submerged figures in water terrain. Those effects ignore hindering terrain, and water used to be defined as a type of hindering terrain. Ignoring the terrain allows them to ignore the effect of the feat, since its based on the terrain.


BoT

Actually, these aren't the same thing. However, the old erretta is good to know, since it prevents the abuse.

I think a more simple answer may be found in the Foom/Galactus rules:

(from the Foom rules, Galactus is similar)

Fin Fang Foom ignores the Earthbound, Exploit
Weakness, Force Blast, Incapacitate, Mastermind,
Mind Control, Plasticity, Poison, Psychic Blast, Shape
Change, Stealth, and Support powers of opposing
characters, as well as team abilities and effects that
duplicate the effects of those powers

Actually, as far as Submerged is concerned, it is pretty much the same thing.

Stealth prevents LOF from being drawn through hindering terrain.

Submerged prevents LOF from being drawn through water terrain.

Really, the only difference is the type of terrain. The mechanics (drawing LOF, etc) are identical.


Where your interpretation may have some real basis is with respect to Camoflauge. LOF doesn't have to cross any particular type of terrain there; all that is required is that the character has to be adjacent to something special (walls or blocking terrain). So in no way is Galactus/Spectre/etc itself actually interacting with the terrain.

I'll have to dig around and see if this has been addressed in any meaningful way.

Except that Sumbereged and Camoflauge DON'T duplicate the effect, the same way that Damage Shield still affects G/S/Foom and the Skrull TA still works as well. There's precedent for the feat superceding, but frankly, if the old eretta holds [treat it like Stealth DESPITE the wording, NOT because of it], then even if there hasn't been an official ruling on Camouflage, if I were a judge I would rule it the same and it does seem to be the intent. I don't think they ever intended any feat of any point value to prevent scenario retaliation attacks, and I was just checking to see that some ruling/eretta supported that.

from the most recent errata:

• Galactus ignores the Skrulls team
ability.

and submerged and camouflage read (respectively)

Choose a character.
(Optional) When the character occupies water terrain, lines of fire drawn to it are blocked.

Choose a character.
When the character is adjacent to a wall or blocking terrain, any line of fire for a ranged combat attack drawn to the character is blocked.



sounds pretty close to stealth to me:

STEALTH (OPTIONAL): Any line of fire drawn to this character that crosses hindering
terrain, including a square of hindering terrain occupied by this character, is treated as though it crosses
blocking terrain.

Pretty close is not the same.

LoF being blocked, as it is with Submerged and Camo, is a whole different ball of wax than treating the LoF as if it crosses blocking terrain.

The end result is the same, but the mechanics are different.

Well, ok, if they ignore terrain, then submerged is moot, because it's all treated as clear to them, correct?

Do they ignore blocking terrain? cause if they dont, then camo i figure could work.

from rules:

Characters and terrain do not block or impose
the hindering terrain modifier on lines of fire drawn
to or from Fin Fang Foom.

Characters and terrain do not block, or impose the hindering terrain modifier on, lines of fire drawn to or from Galactus.

Right. But Sub and Camo aren't a terrain effect [they don't treat LoF as crossing blocking, they simply block it...same result, different mechanic]. As has been said, because of the Trick Shot ruling, it should be a moot point...since Big-G etc. ignore the Skrull TA and Trick Shot draws line of fire despite being blocked, the ruling is likely [and should be] that they ignore the effects of Sub and Camo. Again [and again, and again] I don't think these feats were ever intended to be abusable in the way I laid out, and since the eretta so far supports that they wouldn't be despite their wording, it's logical to conclude that the official ruling is that they aren't.

I got your back, dude.

Stepping out of the technical rule set, I'm pretty sure that a colossal dragon or a Cosmic entity could squish a little batman, or a little alien skrull guy, or Aquaguy or Prince Fish, or a Spider on a wall pretty darn easily. So I am agreeing with you, and trying to help back up your argument. Sorry if it sounded any other way...

Ah, gotcha...silly written word and lack of tone

While we are on the topic of abusing rules, how ridiculous is it that someone could think deadman could possess galactus or foom?

From the wording of the power [since it doesn't duplicate Mind Control]...not very. That's not to say it isn't ridiculous and shouldn't be ruled against, however...