Hi Guys - Thanks for reading. Just a couple quick questions regarding giants.

During the Mutations And Monsters pre-release in Akron I played someone who insisted giants received hindering bonuses even when they weren't STANDING in hindering terrain. The player insisted his zombie Giant-Man's defense was 19 instead of the printed 18 when my figures fired THROUGH hindering at the Giant-Man, who stood in normal terrain. Was this legal?

Every other venue where I play requires giants to STAND in hindering to receive a defensive bonus or take advantage of stealth (example: Colossal Boy wildcarding Batman Ally TA).

The player in question also said giants didn't crush the object tokens over which they'd moved or stood upon. One judge in my area rules otherwise. What's the current status on this one?

The two judges who officiated the event had 18 matches going on and seemed a little shakey regarding rules. My opponent was irritatingly self-righteous. I figured in a battle of wills he'd have cowed them under. So those five or six ranged attacks I missed thanks to his dubious hindering bonus mostly contributed to my being swept in the third round.

Maybe I wouldn't have been so frustrated had the venue not charged $30 (!!!) to play (didn't see that coming, we assumed entry was $20) and then didn't even throw in any extra prize support. And also have to thank WizKids for so "generously" providing a freakin' BFC as the participation prize instead of purple rings.

I'm sorry but your opponent was right : the rules state that hindering terrain affect LoF to giant characters as normal.

Cap'

Seeing as I'm the opponent in question, I'll take this opportunity to address all of the issues which happened during that match.

1) Giants through hindering terrain. I told you about that one and you questioned me. You asked to see the rules, so I allowed you to peruse my copy of the rulebook to dispute me. In failing to find support for your position, you called over the judges. They also backed me up.

2) On the issue of crushing objects, you asked me and never asked the judges.

3) As for my self righteousness, how self righteous is it for me to provide you with extra damage to my guys when you were about to make a faulty call on yourself? Your Iceman had a critical hit against my Bishop and Dazzler. Your base damage was 3. You said that you were able to now divide 4 total among them. I corrected you and told you that you would divide the 3 damage and then add +1 to each target. I don't think that I was being too self-righteous at that point.

4) You didn't press the issue, but when my Dazzler was on her last click (7 attack, 1 damage, Pulse Wave), I declared a ranged attack against your Iceman. The roll failed to hit Iceman's 17 defense. I believe that your next quote was "You didn't turn off your Pulse Wave, so give a click to Bishop." I told you that was not the case. You didn't push the issue, but if you had I could have shown you this FAQ entry.

5) As for a battle of wills, it didn't happen. Before the entire tournament began, you were asking the assisting judge about Devil Dinosaur's status as a transporter. Sitting beside you, I added my two cents to back you up that double-based figures are not all transporters, citing the 2099 Ghost Rider.

6) The judge announced an incorrect ruling on Amadeus Cho before the event began. (He gets to use OW after ANY action.) I did not bother to try and correct them. It was their venue, so they have the final say. I would have abided by any ruling made.

7) There was also an issue on Iceman's special KC-like power. The judges' made a ruling on the fly which went in my favor. Yesterday I posed this question on the WK judges' forum. The answer to that one came back from the RA in the same way that the Akron judges ruled.

Hey, I got to thinking about this a minute ago. The guy who pulled the PW #### was the second round.

If this is Craig, I apologize for implying the above stuff was you.

I don't recall you ever actually calling any judges over at all during our match. You played a good game. I'm not sure what I did to come off as self-righteous. I just try to play a fair game.

I'm sorry, but I love these "he said, she said" post tourney threads. Such entertainment!

A few things:
As far as I know, only Colossal figures (Sentinels, Galactus etc) crush objects when standing/moving on top of them.
Would you have preferred nothing at all?
Seriously: You get to try out the new set early, play a few games, have fun (hopefully). That's not a bad deal, but WizKids also chooses to give you a little something extra to make the prereleases more worthwhile. That's pretty generous of them; They don't have to give you anything.
Also, a BFC is in some ways even better than a Purple Ring figure: Purple rings cannot be played in official tournaments, and are therefore of limited use. The Great Arena, on the other hand, can be played in official events, helps out some teams tremendously, and as far as I know the only way to get one (without resorting to the secondary market) is to attend a prerelease - on the other hand, you can obtain the silver ring versions of the purple ring uniques (which ARE legal to play in official tournaments) from boosters.

As for the rest of the post... Harpua generally knows his stuff. Better than most other judges, I might add.

Harpua is correct in both aspects of giant-rules.

Hence...



Ugh. I can see where the self-righteousness would come from. If someone had a dispute, I show them where it states the correct ruling. Saying, "Here is the rulebook. Find where I'm wrong." is pretty poor form.

As I've noticed on this and the WK board, few people clearly know the Giant Rules. It lends them to being quite effective in a fight as a result.

At my PR, I watched as a player struggled with trying to get his Living Monolith from Elevated Terrain, down the stairs, and attack a Green Scar.

It was frustrating because I wanted to yell at him "Giants ignore outdoor terrain, just run him over the edge!"

Oh well...

LoF to and from giants are always treated as if they are at the level of the non-giant. If a giant is on ground level and its target is elevated, then only elevated terrain is considered.

Blocking and Hindering will affect LoF. Only elevated characters (and certain Colossal characters not as on a force) ignore intervening terrain. This is a common mistake.

Though this assumes that the giant is grounded. An Elevated giant can only be targetted by a grounded standard figure if the giant occupies a square on the rim of the elevated terrain.


BoT

First...that happened with the guy from round two, not KidNexus. Second...what you say is 100% NOT how the rulebook issue thing went down. He disputed what I said. I pulled out the rulebook to find it and turned to the section of the rules on giants. I began to skim the rules to find the section I wanted. The other guy said that he wanted to read it for himself and asked to see my rulebook. That is what I mean by "You asked to see the rules, so I allowed you to peruse my copy of the rulebook to dispute me."

Its only because you said "You asked to see the rules, so I allowed you to peruse my copy of the rulebook to dispute me. In failing to find support for your position, you called over the judges" that I commented.

If the OP said it, I would have given you the benefit of the doubt because that is a totally wad-like thing to say.

If you were willing to show him where the correct wording is located, than that's cool. The rules are complicated and they change too frequently so mistakes and house-rules get mistaken for being the "law".

We all should be working together to make sure everyone has a good time and gets the rules down correctly.

No he doesn't, only after a power action. Hence he can't move and outwit.

Assuming will always lead to trouble. I bet they even have a phone #. <Sarcasm> I called and asked what the venue I went to was charging because I was not paying an overly inflated rate for somthing that came out less than a week. The Venue I went to charged $22 and randomly gave out a Foom. And since I was not running the event, I and another judge, gave the envoy running it some of our 'extra' LEs to give out as prizes. Guess it is all about who you hang out with and your attitude.


No one forced you to pay $30 to play for a measley "freakin' BFC". You could have walked away and gone home or stayed and watched everyone else have fun since you were so miserable.

Oh, believe me, I wanted to show him. I'm in agreement with you. My opponent at the time, however, didn't feel that way. To tell the truth, I was a little irritated because hw wouldn't let me find it for him. By that I mean that I knew what I was looking for. (Page 43: "Hindering terrain, blocking terrain, and elevated terrain affect line of fire to a giant character as normal.") I could have found it in about 2 seconds. Instead, he insisted on taking the time to read the whole giants section.

Whatever. If your mind is made up about me, I'm not going to try and change it. I do want to make clear, however, that the situation with looking things up in the rulebook didn't even occur with the OP.

As I said before, I'm in total agreement with you on this.

I know that. The part in parentheses is the incorrect ruling that they announced.

Harpua......you're reading into tyro's response too heavily. If anything your response dictated his.

You said.....

"1) Giants through hindering terrain. I told you about that one and you questioned me. You asked to see the rules, so I allowed you to peruse my copy of the rulebook to dispute me. In failing to find support for your position, you called over the judges. They also backed me up."

By what you said it sounds like this occured:

Guy: Hey can I see the rules on giants and hindering?
You: Sure, take a look at my rulebook and show me where I'm wrong.

That's what I took from it until I saw your explanation.

"Whatever. If your mind is made up about me, I'm not going to try and change it. I do want to make clear, however, that the situation with looking things up in the rulebook didn't even occur with the OP."

It's responses like this that make it look like you're not very open to a constructive argument concerning a simple conversation much less a ruling in a Heroclix game.

I'm not judging you, I'm just showing you that it isn't necessarily what you're saying but how you're saying it that make a world of difference in how people interpret one's attitude.