I'm sure this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it in the search engine.

AGENT PROVOCATEUR: Spider-Woman can use Outwit. When Spider-Woman uses Outwit, she can use it normally, or she can counter all powers of a choosen type (move, attack, damage or defense) of all adjacent characters.

Just making sure, but Spider-Woman's special outwit works like Doom and Emperor Joker where the chosen type of powers remain countered even after the character takes damage and the powers change. Correct?

And also she does not need LoF for the ability to outwit all adjacent characters, so she could still outwit an adjacent stealth character in hindering terrain. Correct?

For the first part of your question, I'll say yes. That's the way the other powers have been ruled, so I see no reason why this would differ.

For the second part, I believe the answer is no. She still has to have LoF to use the Outwit. It is still subject to the rules of usage of Outwit, and nowher in the description of the power does it say that she doesn't need to have LoF. (Unlike Dooms 'Lord Of Latveria' which specifically states 'anywhere on the battlefield')

Correct.

Here is a thread with Normalview chiming in.


Correct on the not needing LoS for using the SP.

Here is a thread for that with Harpua chiming in. (post #19)

Also from the Players Guide:

#040 Doom
• When using Powerless to counter all powers or all abilities,
Doom must still draw a line of fire to the target.

Honestly, what a dumb### ruling.

How it that dumb in any way?

The power replaces the LoS and range of 10 with adgacency for outwit on Standard and named powers. Specificly stating the requirements. That's what the power does.

What a great ruling!

I think it makes her unique and special, especially since I have one

Ha! If you like that try giving her the Sheild Disruptor.

On first click, use outwit.

Push do do something that is not a close combat attack.

Drop the Special object(don't drop it on another one......no reason to waste objects).

Then get to use the SP outwit. Fun times.

Because it's completely inconsistent with the way Outwit works, and the way other SP with this type of effect have been ruled to work. That's why it's dumb.

I have one too, but I don't like the ruling. Of course, I'll use it to my advantage, but I still don't agree with it or like it.

But the ruling is actually consistent with the wording of the power, as opposed to the other powers' rulings. (See "Scheme")

But it's not consistent with the way Outwit works. Outwit requires LoF unless specifically stated. Nowhere in the description of this power (or in the Players Guide) does it say anything to the contrary regarding this power.

Is Outwit being used? Yes.
Does Outwit require LoF? Yes.
Does this power say that LoF is not required? No.

And the other SP Outwit powers that provide the same type of benefit:

So, how are they different? Looking at those powers, and with the ruling on Spider-Woman, how come Skrull Emperor, Doom and Emperor Joker all have to have LoF and Spider-Woman doesn't? Simply because she's adjacent? When using Outwit, having a clear LoF is the requirement. For further reference:

Notice the very specific wording on 'Lord Of Latveria'?

Again, if that's the ruling we have, what are you going to do? I don't have to agree with it or like it, but I'll abide by it. It's very inconsistent though.

I disagree.

Again, all you have to do is read the power and it tells you that you can counter a power on all adjacent characters. By saying that, it is offering a different option than the typical requirement of LOF. Again, I say that the ruling on Skrull Emperor was more inconsistent because of the way it was worded.

Based on what?

Is Outwit being used? Yes.
Does Outwit require LoF unless specifically stated (see Doom)? Yes.
Does this power say that LoF is not required? No.

So it shouldn't override the requirement of LoF.

Normal Outwit can counter a power on adjacent figures, with the requirement of LoF. The only thing different here is that you can counter all powers of a certain type (Attack, Movement, Defense or Damage) of all adjacent figures. The or in the power description simply means that you can use Outwit normally or in the fashion described. It says nothing about being able to override the requirement of LoF. Show me where it does? The being adjacent is just an additional requirement to be able to use the *or* part of the power. Again, I'll cite the other SP that grant the same type of benefit. None of them say they can override the requirement of LoF, and they have in fact all been ruled that LoF is indeed required. Does that make sense?

So it is in fact not consistent at all.

I have to agree with W.I.T here. He has a good argument, and the way I read the texts in question, Spider-Woman should still be required to have LOF to each adjacent fig she is trying to outwit.

I disagree with W.I.T. respectfully. The precedence is not Doom, but Dr. Doom.

By your logic, Dr. Doom should need LoF to the target -- the only difference between normal outwit and his special outwit is that it can be anywhere on the board, thus circumventing outwit's range. It says nothing about LoF. Of course, the ruling is consistent with the text -- it replaces the standard usage of outwit with a new one -- and LoF is not required.