Ok with the new WC stated that you can not change your WC to make the attack illegal.
I have a question.
When say my opponent give his action to RS and i declare batman for my WC's leaving open only one opponent but he was wanting to target one of my WC's did that make it illegal or not?

Now what if my WC was the only one?

I'd still say that attack is legal on the first, but with the second i'd say its legal if there is terrain around for them to shoot at.

Here's what I think is the timing:
1. The action for Running Shot is declared. Targets are not yet assigned and movement has not yet happened.
2. This is your chance to set the WC team ability. Because there is no target yet, becoming a Bat Ally does not invalidate anything.
3. The RS figure moves where they want and can shoot any legal target, but not your Bat-WC.

It very much defeats the SPIRIT of the rule, because you are rendering the intended target "illegal", but since choosing to RS locks you into a move before the attack action, I see no other way out of it.

that is the way i am seeing it to, granted its just hints that he has given us and i'm just wanting to throw some ideas at them to discuss further so that they can get it clearly worded as possible.

It's a little awkward to answer the next PAC's questions with the current PAC's words, so keep that in mind.

With that in mind... if declaring Batman Ally meant that the character using Running Shot had absolutely no valid Ranged Combat Actions, then the wildcard could not declare Batman Ally.

However, if the character using Running Shot would have at least one valid Ranged Combat Action, the wildcard could declare Batman Ally.

-J

this is true but with most figures and the way maps are there's at least going to be blocking terrain, walls, objects for them to shoot.

The best way to do it is this one in MHO.

I am going to make a power action to shoot your WC period.

Now if there is a object that can be target there is the real problem because is a legal target.... and the WC can copy BA but if the figure making the RS dont have 3 damage so??? O MY FREAKIG GOD !!!!!!

help.... :knockedou

It's not illegal he simply has to choose another target for the attack and if there are no other targets available the player may select a different a action for the charactor. This is to prevent wildcarding to T.As like Kingdom Come or Skrull which actually stops the charactor from making the attack and not just force the charactor to pick a different target.

I hardly think thats how it will play out.

Whats the difference in Timing between that and say RCE or Ouwit.

The targeting doesnt actually happen until the Actiion is in the process of resolving.

So you go to Outwit Cosmic Boy and I declare Bat Ally, so now you have to Outwit the Penguin because that makes the action still legal....

I seriously doubt it.

Thats not a high possibility without more rewording of the power as LoF has no range qualifier on it. There is always a valid target to draw LoF to in every indoor map and on all of the new outdoor maps.

The way I always got this is I say I'm giving a running shot action to this fig. That is it, no declaring of targets or moving. My opponents (and myself if it matters) would now declare all wild card TAs to copy. I then would move and shoot. Even if I move and have nothing to shoot at, I still move. I would just lose out on my range attack. I don;t think it says anywhere that I need to shoot from a RS attack, I just now have the option. That make sense? Am I crazy?

actually you do need to make an attack if there is a legal one. otherwise i believe you are unable to make the RS.

But as stated and many people forget walls,objects,and blocking terrain are all legal targets.


edit: Yep in the PG
 The last sentence of this power reads ―The character must be able to make a valid ranged combat action from the square where it ends its move in order to use this power.‖

Nope your not crazy as of the current PAC.

However, we have no idea what the Actual NEW PAC will look like, let alone how the NEW Rule will actually be worded.

And for that mater, "CLARIFIED".

If they want to be consistent though, there is very little difference in the timing of Outwit, the timing of RCE, and the timing of RS.

While the target is declared at different points within the action, the target is still (as currently worded) declared within the action.

The simplest way to word the new WC rule is this......
Any LoF that could have been drawn from one point on the map to another point on the map when the action was declared can not be blocked as the result of a WC figure declaring a TA in response to the declaration of the action.

If they word this in some other silly venacular they will definitely screw this TA up again.

People are going to be pissed if they declare Outwit and then are forced to Outwit some unit they have no desire to Outwit just because Outwit can still be legal.

They are going to be even more pissed if they declare RCE and then have to shoot at a less then desirable target because of how the Wild Card rule is worded.

the difference with OUTWIT and RS is when you declare the target.
Outwit is i outwit that persons power.
With RS its i am declaring RS, the only person who knows who is the target is the person doing the RS.
So yes there is a huge timing difference.

Huh.... Man I want the new rule book to come out... This game is so wonky sometimes haha!

As I posted elesewhere....

That is merely a Tradition, not a rule.

There is no reason the same Tradition can not be applied to RS.

The tradition is in place specifically to maintain the desired effect they want to create with Wildcards.

If they want the WC not to impact Running Shot all they have to do is say the same tradition applies to RS.

There is currently NO rules justification for the timing of targeting, so they (the Orange Lanterns) can apply any such timing rule they want and they apply uniformly to Running Shot even though the Targeting in Running Shot or HSS occurs at a distinctly different point in the resolution of the ACTION.

They also might clear this up by making Targeting part of the DECLARATION process in either the PAC or New Rules....Hard to say until we see the new rules.