Before I get bombasted, I did do a forum search and didn't turn anything up...

So, my question is this:

Now that traits will be denoted by a star on the figure's base, will they be Outwittable like other base symbols? I don't have the Blackest Night rulebook, so maybe that already answers this question, but I thought it was potentially an interesting new twist.

The star doesn't do anything other than remind you that the character has a trait. Traits still cannot be countered.

From p. 17 of the Blackest Night Rulebook:
Keep in mind that other base symbols are not outwittable. You can often Outwit the ability granted by the symbol (for example Flight or Carry), but you cannot Outwit the symbol itself (i.e., the wing speed symbol.)

Exactly, any ability that is printed on the actual dial (not the clix), can't be outwitted, like i.e., Indomitable .

When you say it that way it gets confusing. Indomitable can be Outwitted. The symbol cannot be Outwitted, but the Indomitable ability can be.

Someone pulled that on me in a game... and we wasted about half of our game time trying to argue about it. Our group still jokes about how traits and team abilities are outwittable because they are on the dial... sigh.

The thing is, that shortcut trick of "if it's on the dial it's possessed and outwittable" was invented before traits were printed on the dial. Now that traits are printed on the dial, that shortcut doesn't apply anymore.

The symbols on the dials cannot be countered. Any power or ability that is possessed through those symbols can be outwitted. If a trait says "This character possesses Super Senses and Impervious," both Super Senses and Impervious can be outwitted. They would have to be outwitted individually (since the trait itself cannot be countered), but since they are possessed they can be outwitted.

You can outwit powers and abilities.
Traits and team abilities are neither.

Obviously if a character has a special power that allows them to outwit/counter team abilities, then they can do so, such as Time Trapper. But as of yet there are no powers that allow a character to outwit/counter a trait.

Actually, traits and team abilities ARE abilities. Check the rule book if you don't believe me.


The reason you can't counter those two specific abilities (traits and TAs) is because we're specifically told by another part of the rules that we can not do so.

would Doom's Special counter the power given by a trait?

POWERLESS: Doom can use Outwit. When Doom uses Outwit, he can use it normally, or choose to counter all powers or all abilities of a target character 6 or fewer squares away.


say he chose Martian Manhunter for BatB
TRAIT: Martian Manhunter can use Shape Change and Phasing/Teleport.

would MM still be able to use Shape Change and P/T , or does "ALL" not cover that?

He outwits all powers OR all abilities. If you choose powers, all powers possessed by the character are outwitted. If you choose abilities, it is referring to the abilities listed under Combat Abilities in the PAC. Traits themselves do not fall under either of those categories. Powers or abilities possessed through traits do.

ya i got the "OR" part thank you,

but his power does not say he counters powers possesed, it says he counters "ALL" powers

Only powers that are possessed can be countered. I believe the intent with all is about countering more than one power than it is about getting around the differences between Use and Possess.

As always, it is possible I am wrong.

But if it isn't possessed, then it isn't there to be countered.

"ALL" i would assume falls under its own category, especially since Doom would not being using the power normally, and his use says nothing about the powers needing to be possessed, or am i missing something in the rules ?


edit i found it thanks ppl disregard my argument and question
from the rulebook

rowdyoctopus is correct. Powerless just changes the number of powers/combat abilities that can be countered from 1 power/combat ability to all powers or all combat abilities if the target is within 6 squares. All other aspects of Outwit remain the same including that Outwit only counters powers possessed by the target. So Martian Manhunter can still use Shape Change and Phasing/Teleport.