Hello !

I got a little question about Fly-By (the SP of Falcon and Archangel) and its interaction with the Carry ability.
Firt, a reminder :
So, here's the question :
When do I have to place a carried character ? Is it before making the close-combat attack, as usual with Charge, or is it after ending the full movement for the action, as suggested in the Carry ability (underlined part) ?
I woudl have gone with option 2, but the clairifcation of the Players Guide might prove me wrong :
So somehow, it seems than when using Fly-By, the movement STOP before the attack (which is coherent with Charge) and then restart after the attack. Not quite the same thing as an attack occuring during movement, is it ?
Because if Falcon actually stops his movement before attacking and then resume it, it means that he can cary a character with him, move, drop the character, attack, and then move again, possibly carying another character with him.
So ? How does it work exactly ?

Carry-wise, Fly-By works exactly like Charge.

Assign action, Carry adjacent character, move, stop moving, stop using Carry, attack.


All Fly-By does is let the character using the power maybe move a couple more squares after the attack is over. However, a carried character is already been set back on the map (see above) and the only time a character can pick up and Carry a character is at the beginning of the movement-causing action... and the Fly-By action started earlier (when Falcon first carried his friend). No more carrying this action.

OK, thanks !

The ruling normalview gave you is the standard ruling thats been given out by the RA before.

However, if you were at an event I was judging I completely disagree with that ruling....

First, I agree the movement doesnt end for the action until the action ends. For me thats the exact meaning of the word "continue". And thus I wouldnt have you put the character down until the movement for the action is completly resolved.

Second, I dont think rolling break away has an impact on carrying one way or the other. Sure roll breakaway on the second half of the movement. If you fail then your action and movement is over and you set the carried character down.

Third, technically speaking you should be able to pick up a character at any time you start moving during an action as long as the character was adjacent to you at the start of the action.

Nowhere in the rules does carrying actually require you to carry only at the beginning of your action.

For instance, if Bouncing Boy gets a second movement from his SP for KOing a character he clearly should be able to carry a figure with his Free Action.

I see your point, IceHot, and I think it make sense, even if my first guess was different from your ruling too. To me, there was two separate movement in Fly-By, since movement has to stop before making the close-combat attack with Charge, and the PG seemed to support that. I totally agree that a character like Bouncing Boy should be able to restart a Carry with the free action he gets using his SP, thu, but the mechanism involved is a little different.

By the way, another question :
what will happen if I play Lunge on a character that can use both Charge and Carry ? The move from Lunge is separate from the move from Charge, righ t? Do I will have to drop teh character I carry then, even thu I can use Lunge to carry a character ? Or is the whole thing one big move as far as Carry is involve ?

Depends if you're using IceHot's rules or the ones that normalview laid out above.

According to normalview, and the rules as we've had it, it's all one action and one movement. Therefore, you pick up a passenger only at the start and you put it down only at the end. All the moves and stops in between don't alter that.

I won't speak for IceHot, but reading his reply, i can see an argument that you can give someone a close combat action to Flurry, pick someone up, carry them and put them down, make a close combat attack, carry someone else and put them down, and then make the second close combat attack. Again - this is NOT how I would be ruling it.

I was surprised to see normalview's answer and now I'm really confused. Based on the past and your response, my understanding is that when Falcon uses Carry and Fly-By he picks up a character at the beginning of his movement, moves, does the attack, then rolls break away, if successful continues moving, ends movement, then puts the carried character down. If not successful, the action ends and he puts the character down. But either way, the carried character is carried during the attack. (Similar to HSS.)

Now I didn't read normalview's response that way, but maybe I'm reading it wrong. Is the way I described it above correct?

This is one of the questions (if I recall) that Norm tackled when he first started as RA (or was it the end of Hairs tenure). We discussed this a good bit on the old WK Judges forum back in the day. I have come to accept this as just one of the things we interpret differently.

(Personally, I would treat it all as one movement - and not set the figure down until the action is over like HSS)

That being said, you will probably find that most judges will rule it like normal and Norm.

The general belief is that the first part of movement for Fly-By ends before the attack, so they make you set down the dude you are carrying and thus you can't pick him up again.

Even though the extra movement continues, the attack is not actually happening DURING the movement, so its not the same as HSS.

(ok or maybe not - after re-reading Norms post, I am not sure how Norm would rule this one)

This is one of the rules that can easily be interpreted in a few different ways so my recommendation is not just that you ask the Orange Crew, but that you also ask your local judge (no point in being suprised).

In any case there are a couple of things you should remember no matter which way you would interpret the rule...

• Carrying only happens during Movement resulting from an action.
• You have to start your Action adjacent to the figure you plan on carrying.

I don't think normalview and nbperp are saying the same thing.

they are not.
Nbperp=does not drop off before the attack, but at the end of the action.
Norm=drops off before the attack.

You may be correct, rereading his post it looks like we may disagree on this. I'm pretty sure I'm right for what the ruling is (though I think this ruling is a good candidate for "let's get the current team to analyze it and come up with something worded more clearly and consistent)

I will point out, since many folks know that NBPerp => a guy named "Norm", it may be better to use normalviews full screen name, at least when using it in such close proximity to mine.

The ironic part is that normalview was on the same page as you a few months ago. Sounds like this is going on the outstanding questions list, though. While this is being reviewed, would it be possible to reconsider the break away ruling? It doesn't actually match up with the current break away rules. (Reasoning: Break away is only required when a character is given an action and attempts to move. When Falcon moves after attacking he has already been given an action. So no break away roll should be required. The only reason a break away roll is required is because the Player's Guide specifically says one is required.)

I've always been disappointed in how this power works. If they have to stop and break away again they should at least be able to drop off and pick up.

I will support Question on the breakaway thing.
If you want to make the whole power more clear about the Carry issue, the best way to go is to rewrote it so that the movement does not end before the attack is made, a fact that will remove the need to breakaway.
Something like that : "This character can use Charge. When using Charge, this character doesn't have to stop his movement before making the free close-combat action."
This is just a suggestion, of course.

I agree it's called Fly By not Fly and Stop By. Also this does bring up the debate of if you set a character down that you carried and you make a successful break away roll, than you should be able to pick up a different friendly character if they are adjacent.