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I have run into this team ability in the last few matches I have played. I don't get it, is it a regeneration if the dice roll is high enough to the KO'd character?
For some reason, this TA really seems to confuse people. Let's take it point by point.
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When a friendly character adjacent to a character using the Suicide Squad team ability is KO’d,
This ability only occurs when a friendly character next to a character with the Suicide Squad TA is KOed. The KOd figure does not need to have the team ability, so, for example, if Bane (Batman Enemy TA) is standing next to Scandal Savage (Suicide Squad TA), and Bane is KOd, Scandal gets to use her team ability.
Suicide Squad teams love pogs. Throw a bunch of bystander tokens on the team, have them push to move next to their Suicide Squad buddies, they are KOd by the pushing damage and the Suicide Squad TA triggers. I like to imagine the little guys saying, "I... brought you... the med kit..." as they lay dying. : - )
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roll a d6 and subtract 2 from the result, minimum result 1.
This part is fairly straight forward, I think.
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After the action is resolved, if this character is not KO’d, it is healed of damage equal to the result.
This part confuses a lot of people.
The first clause is typically easy to understand. Wait for whatever caused the KO to finish resolving before you start doing any healing. This can be quite a delay depending on what is going on. I'll give an example in a minute.
The middle clause is the one that gets people. What is that doing in there? It's simpler than it sounds, really. If the character with Suicide Squad TA is KOd by the same action that KOd the first character, he doesn't get any healing.
Okay, let's look at some examples.
Secret six team! (Yeah, I'm making one soon, they're on my brain, sue me.)
For all of these examples, Bane has the Batman Enemy TA, Scandal Savage and Deadshot have the Suicide Squad TA and they are all standing next to each other.
The easy example: Bane is KOd by a simple attack. Scandal Savage and Deadshot both get to heal when the attack is over.
The other easy example: Scandal Savage is KOd by a simple attack. Deadshot gets to heal with his TA. Bane doesn't, and curses his fate, wishing he'd gotten a better Team Ability, maybe a cool wildcard. He could be a Calculator, right?
More fun example: Someone critical hits Bane with Energy Explosion. All three characters take damage BEFORE anyone gets to heal. Only after the damage is applied and everyone is KOd do you determine if anyone can use Suicide Squad. This is where that last clause becomes important. If Scandal Savage is KOd at the same time as Bane is, she does not get to use her TA to heal. So, if Bane and Scandal are KOd, Scandal doesn't heal, but Deadshot gets to heal TWICE!
Even more fun example: Bouncing Boy has a special ability that says (simplified), if he KOs a figure, he can move and attack someone else as part of the same action. Remember that Suicide Squad says to heal after the action resolves. If Bouncing Boy charges over and beats up on Bane (hey, stranger things have happened), and Bane is KOd, Scandal and Deadshot do not get to use their TAs to heal yet as Bouncing Boy's actions have not yet resolved. They have to wait for BB to move and attack someone else (probably one of them!) before they can use their TAs. If they are still un-KOd after Bouncing Boy is finished, THEN they get to use their TAs to heal. So, Bouncing Boy KOs Bane, then moves and attacks Scandal. If he KOs Scandal, Deadshot gets to heal twice, but Scandal will never get to use her TA for Bane's KO. If Scandal isn't KOd, both she and Deadshot get to use their TAs to heal.
More fun example: Someone critical hits Bane with Energy Explosion. All three characters take damage BEFORE anyone gets to heal. Only after the damage is applied and everyone is KOd do you determine if anyone can use Suicide Squad. This is where that last clause becomes important. If Scandal Savage is KOd at the same time as Bane is, she does not get to use her TA to heal. So, if Bane and Scandal are KOd, Scandal doesn't heal, but Deadshot gets to heal TWICE!
The red part of Suttkus great example is the most important part of the TA.
On a side note, the character with Suicide Squad doesn't even need to be attacked or take damage for the power to work.
In a nutshell the power is in my words "Whenever a friendly figure is killed and an adjacent figure with the suicide squad TA was not killed; this team ability activates after that action is completed. Roll a D6 subtract 2 and heal that much with a minimum of 1."
I'm no rule guru but that's how I understand it. Also I'm not great with grammar but that makes more sense to me than the wizkids version.
Pretty much everything / anything about general heroclix is here.
More fun example: Someone critical hits Bane with Energy Explosion. All three characters take damage BEFORE anyone gets to heal. Only after the damage is applied and everyone is KOd do you determine if anyone can use Suicide Squad. This is where that last clause becomes important. If Scandal Savage is KOd at the same time as Bane is, she does not get to use her TA to heal. So, if Bane and Scandal are KOd, Scandal doesn't heal, but Deadshot gets to heal TWICE!
First, how long did that take you?
Second, and less importantly, that's how Suicide Squad has been ruled, but I don't think it's the correct ruling. (disguy is going to love this because it's an argument based on grammar.) Suicide Squad is written like a "situational power." (A situational power is one where you check whether the situation exists and then apply the effect once.)
From the Player's Guide:
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When a friendly character adjacent to a character using the Suicide Squad team ability is KO’d, roll a d6 and subtract 2 from the result, minimum result 1. After the action is resolved, if this character is not KO’d, it is healed of damage equal to the result.
So when a friendly character adjacent to a character using the Suicide Squad team ability is KOd, you do what it says. It shouldn't matter whether 1 friendly character was KOd or whether 8 friendly characters were KOd. You should only roll once. Compare this to the minion powers.
From the Player's Guide:
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Minion: Chain of Command: When a friendly character with the H.A.M.M.E.R. keyword and a higher point value is within 8 squares, H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent modifies his attack value by +1. If that character is named Norman Osborn or Iron Patriot, H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent modifies his attack value by an additional +1.
We know that the modifier is only applied once no matter how many friendly character with the H.A.M.M.E.R. keyword and a higher point value are within 8 squares of the H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent.
The structure of both effects is worded the same and they should be applied the same.
Not all that long... *checks* Yikes, it was twenty four minutes between the time I posted that post and the time I posted my previous one. Sure, I must have done some reading in the meantime, but... wow, time flies when you're having fun or something.
Quote : Originally Posted by Questions
Second, and less importantly, that's how Suicide Squad has been ruled, but I don't think it's the correct ruling.
I spent much of this evening building a VS deck, and again I wish their rules writers had come over at some point. HeroClix would greatly benefit from more rigorous diction in rules descriptions.
There is certainly some ambiguity here. I think the reason your example and Suicide Squad were ruled differently is that Suicide Squad produces a distinct, one-moment effect. You heal, the dial moves, your done. There's no time-factor involved. With the modifier, it remains from then on.
Should it have been ruled that way? Probably not, but then Suicide squad should have been rewritten several rules versions ago to "Each time an adjacent, friendly character is KOd, this character heals d6-2 (minimum 1) clicks after the action resolves."
There is certainly some ambiguity here. I think the reason your example and Suicide Squad were ruled differently is that Suicide Squad produces a distinct, one-moment effect. You heal, the dial moves, your done. There's no time-factor involved. With the modifier, it remains from then on.
I'd say its unambigious when you consider how it's ruled in every other example. If they want it to work that way, like you said, it should be rewritten. I'd also argue that the effect of Suicide Squad is no different than the effect of the H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent. If the H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent begins within 8 squares, but has Charge (special feat you don't know about yet ) and moves beyond the 8 squares, it won't get the modifier to its attack value at the time of the attack. Both effects seem to be equally time sensitive.
I'd say its unambigious when you consider how it's ruled in every other example. If they want it to work that way, like you said, it should be rewritten. I'd also argue that the effect of Suicide Squad is no different than the effect of the H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent. If the H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent begins within 8 squares, but has Charge (special feat you don't know about yet ) and moves beyond the 8 squares, it won't get the modifier to its attack value at the time of the attack. Both effects seem to be equally time sensitive.
I get what you are saying about timed effects and how it relates to Hammer agent but I think that because in effect you can't really KO two (or more) character at the same time. Unless you are really good at turning clix!
Bear with me I'm not talking about in one action.
My team has two Gambits standing in front of Deadshot who has this TA.
An Enemy with 10 attacks the two Gambits both who are on their 3rd to last clix with a ranged attack. He deal 8 psychic blast damage which the characters share equally.
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When a friendly character adjacent to a character using the Suicide Squad team ability is KO’d, roll a d6 and subtract 2 from the result, minimum result 1. After the action is resolved, if this character is not KO’d, it is healed of damage equal to the result.
As a good player I pick up my first figure and clix through until I see the KO. A friendly character was KOed I roll the die subtract 2. (Does not heal yet).
I repeat the same for the second figure. A friendly character was KOed I roll the die subtract 2. (Does not heal yet).
Figures are removed from board and I heal Deadshot for each roll.
Pretty much everything / anything about general heroclix is here.
I get what you are saying about timed effects and how it relates to Hammer agent but I think that because in effect you can't really KO two (or more) character at the same time. Unless you are really good at turning clix!
Bear with me I'm not talking about in one action.
My team has two Gambits standing in front of Deadshot who has this TA.
An Enemy with 10 attacks the two Gambits both who are on their 3rd to last clix with a ranged attack. He deal 8 psychic blast damage which the characters share equally.
As a good player I pick up my first figure and clix through until I see the KO. A friendly character was KOed I roll the die subtract 2. (Does not heal yet).
I repeat the same for the second figure. A friendly character was KOed I roll the die subtract 2. (Does not heal yet).
Figures are removed from board and I heal Deadshot for each roll.
The physical limitations of the game have no effect on the game. The characters are KOd at the same time. Otherwise if both of those had the Fantastic Four team ability, I could administer healing as I KO them. It doesn't work that way.
The physical limitations of the game have no effect on the game. The characters are KOd at the same time. Otherwise if both of those had the Fantastic Four team ability, I could administer healing as I KO them. It doesn't work that way.
Questions is absolutely correct here. The characters are KO'd at the same time. The fact that you can't actually physically turn the dials simultaneously is irrelevant to the timing in-game.
Quote : Originally Posted by Magnito
In other words, it's all Vlad's fault.
Quote : Originally Posted by Masenko
Though I'm pretty sure if we ever meet rl, you get a free junk shot on me.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
Vlad is neither good nor evil. He is simply Legal.
I..wait, what? I thought the SS TA worked so that if one with the TA was ko'd you roll, not whoever was next to the poor schmuck. Time to reread the TA
I..wait, what? I thought the SS TA worked so that if one with the TA was ko'd you roll, not whoever was next to the poor schmuck. Time to reread the TA
Nope. It has never worked that way. It has always been that the figure next to the SS figure is the one being KOed.