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I can't stop your brute strength, but my mind is far superior
If I read The NEW Leader's special Power: I can't stop your brute strength, but my mind is far superior correctly, if he is assigned the feat Dissent, he can outwit 2 team abilities. Correct?
Damage: I Can't Stop Your Brute Strength, But My Mind is Far Superior: The Leader can use Outwit. Once per turn, if he uses it to counter a power or ability that isn't a defense power, he can immediately use it again to counter another power or ability that isn't a defense power.
DISSENT
Cost: 18
Prerequisite: Outwit
Choose a character. When the character uses Outwit, it may choose to counter a team ability possessed by a single target opposing character.
I certainly see no reason why it wouldn't work that way. He's using Outwit, so can outwit a single team ability, then he's using Outwit again, and can counter another single team ability.
Unless the word "ability" refers to just Combat Abilities like Doom.
Quote
Outwitting all abilities of a character with Powerless refers to the Combat Abilities listed on the Powers and Abilities card
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
Good to see my telepathy still works... Maybe you should line the cave with tin foil.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
At it's core Outwit can counter powers and combat abilities.
Combat abilities are abilities.
This means that the first part of the power is clear.
"Once per turn, if he uses it to counter a power or ability that isn't a defense power..."
Using the basic Outwit, you will have done this.
The second part is where it gets a little tricky.
"...he can immediately use it again to counter another power or ability that isn't a defense power."
Is that opening things up beyond the scope of your basic Outwit?
Combat abilities are abilities. Team abilities and trait abilities are also abilities.
From a certain perspective, the power could be read that the second part is more open than the basic Outwit, allowing team or trait abilities to be countered.
I don't see much argument, though. Doom (or any other reference to Abilities in a special Outwit variation) doesn't explicitly increase the scope of what can be Outwitted beyond the limitations set forth in Outwit, so I can see that he wouldn't get rid of team abilities. Dissent does explicitly increase the scope of what can be Outwitted, and Leader's SP doesn't impose any new limitation that I can see. I think it would take an errata to Leader's SP to make that limited to combat abilities in any kind of default sense.
If you guys do decide that it "really secretly means Combat Abilities, even thought it doesn't say so", I warn you, I will gripe and whine like a fanboy whose favorite hero just got taken down by Paste Pot Pete about how this game SERIOUSLY needs a proper structured vocabulary.
At it's core Outwit can counter powers and combat abilities.
Combat abilities are abilities.
This means that the first part of the power is clear.
"Once per turn, if he uses it to counter a power or ability that isn't a defense power..."
Using the basic Outwit, you will have done this.
The second part is where it gets a little tricky.
"...he can immediately use it again to counter another power or ability that isn't a defense power."
Is that opening things up beyond the scope of your basic Outwit?
Combat abilities are abilities. Team abilities and trait abilities are also abilities.
From a certain perspective, the power could be read that the second part is more open than the basic Outwit, allowing team or trait abilities to be countered.
Gotcha. The op asked about Dissent which would circumvent that problem which is why i was confused
Still that sounds like people are reading way too much into it
TACTICS: Ares can use Perplex, but he can target only himself and modify one of his values by only +2 with each use.
So can Ares perplex up his Point cost? Normal perplex specifies combat value. This just says one of his values
Oh, I hope so. I want some smartalec to try ti and then lose by 2 points due to that KO.
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Is there anywhere where the point cost is ever referred to as a value?
If there is let me know I will perplex up point cost every time I KO a figure, hmmm... But then they would have taken damage and the perplex would have been nullified...
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
Is there anywhere where the point cost is ever referred to as a value?
Yes. in the core rules it is called point VALUE over a dozen times indicating it is a value (though not a combat value and thus not affected by normal perplex)
At it's core Outwit can counter powers and combat abilities.
Combat abilities are abilities.
This means that the first part of the power is clear.
"Once per turn, if he uses it to counter a power or ability that isn't a defense power..."
Using the basic Outwit, you will have done this.
The second part is where it gets a little tricky.
"...he can immediately use it again to counter another power or ability that isn't a defense power."
Is that opening things up beyond the scope of your basic Outwit?
Combat abilities are abilities. Team abilities and trait abilities are also abilities.
From a certain perspective, the power could be read that the second part is more open than the basic Outwit, allowing team or trait abilities to be countered.
I know this maybe opening up a can, and I don't mean to be, I'm just curious myself.
Let's just say, if Leader, using Dissent, was able to Outwit a team ability and then (because the TA isn't a defense power) he could Outwit another ability or team ability, what if the first TA he Outwitted was the Defenders TA?
DEFENDERS
Characters using the Defenders team ability can
replace their defense value with the unmodified
defense value of an adjacent friendly character using
the Defenders team ability.
Is the Defenders TA considered a defense power?
ALSO (just because it came to mind now)
Does it mean a power or ability that gives a character a standard defense power.
Example:
CA#057 Invisible Woman
If you use Leader to outwit her Shields Up power; SHIELDS UP!: Invisible Woman can use Barrier. When she does so, attach the Invisible Barrier to her after actions resolve.
can Leader use outwit again, even though he (technically) outwitted Barrier, which is a standard defense power?
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