ANALYZE SPECIMENS: Ziran the Tester can use Incapacitate. When he does so, after actions resolve each hit character is dealt damage equal to the number of action tokens on them.

PUSHING
When a character receives a second action token (usually because it has taken an action on two consecutive turns), deal one pushing damage to that character as actions resolve. Game effects that evade, reduce, ignore, or transfer damage do not affect pushing damage unless the effect specifically says it does. (See Figure 7)

Some people are getting confused on Ziran's Analyze Specimens damage and pushing damage. They are separate forms of damage and should be dealt separately. Correct?

Ziran does Multiattack. First attack, triple target with Analyze Specimens. All hit characters are given a token, and dealt one damage. Second attack, triple target with Analyze Specimens. All hit characters are given another token for Incap via Analyze Specimens and are dealt two more clicks of damage. Now, all characters that have two tokens and don't have Willpower or another effect would be given a push damage.

This seems correct to me. But some people are saying that Analyze Specimens replaces Push Damage, but not one piece of game text supports this.

I think you're reading it right, they should be separate sources of damage. Brutal.

You are incorrect about how it works with Multi-Attack.

ANALYZE SPECIMENS: Ziran the Tester can use Incapacitate. When he does so, after actions resolve each hit character is dealt damage equal to the number of action tokens on them.

That means after ALL current actions resolve...including the Multi-Attack.

Moreover, the damage comes AFTER the pushing because pushing happens AS actions resolve, not after.

Really, that makes no sense, and is a huge stretch on the language of the text.

The text says when Ziran uses Incap, after actions resolve, i.e.from Incap, as in when the various targets of Incap are either hit or missed, the target is dealt damage.

And your nit-picky "as actions resolve" and "after actions resolve" is a stretch.

Yet as much as you feel that way, the phrase "after actions resolve" is defined in the rulebook exactly as I stated.

A reference please, page number so I can verify that "as actions resolve" and "after actions resolve" are two different things. I say they are one and the same. If they are not please refer me to the specific page, paragraph, and sentence number in the Core Rulebook.

I found the paragraph that covers the difference of "at the beginning of turn or roun" or "during the end of the turn or round", but to what you refer to, I see no reference, which is why I say you are grasping at straws.

I quote:
RESOLVE: Completing an action and determining its effects, including any of the following: declaring the action, completing a move, rolling a die or dice, taking any free actions allowed by the declared action, dealing damage, taking damage, assigning action tokens, and applying pushing damage.

Is Analyze Specimens an action? Yes, it is an action... just like I have underlined above in the first part of the sentence under RESOLVE..... it says to complete an action and determine its effects.... it's effect is as plain as day... when using it, characters are dealt a damage for each token it has on it. Then I do it again, rinse and repeat. Before I can even do the second attack, Analyze Specimens must be fully resolved... which in it's description is to deal damage based on the number of tokens the opponent's character has. I can't resolve that action and move on to the second action granted by Multiattack until that is fully resolved.

Ziran card says after the action resolves from using Analyze Specimens, each hit character is dealt a damage for each token.

Zirans card does NOT say after Multiattack. It states after actions resolve from Analyze Specimens... so if he used it twice in the same round... it would activate and deal damage twice... as each action is resolved.

It's no different than using B/C/F with Multiattack. You would roll the d6 after EACH successful attack.

Well, I'm not grasping at straws. Frankly, I also don't appreciate the attitude.

That's an abbreviated phrasing which was introduced withing the last couple of years. It does mean after all current actions have resolved. I was on a phone when I answered earlier and unable to look it up. I was also pretty sure that was put into the last rulebook, but I may have been remembering "within range and line of fire."

Regardless, that IS what that phrase means. (If you need something to cite, check page 24 in the lower, right corner to see where I am one of the rules deputies.)

If you saw Bob as were leaving the supermarket and you saw Joe after you left the supermarket, who did you see first?

You keep editing your post.

It is a huge difference there as far as BCF is concerned. BCF specifically says that the roll is after the attack. Analyze Specimens does not say "after actions resolve from Analyze Specimens." It says after actions resolve" which is exactly what I told you above.

There is no attitude. There is a discussion. Because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they have an attitude. But I know, it's the Realms, don't question the supreme leaders or they put you in the gulag.

So it's abbreviated, and doesn't really mean what it says it says what you are saying. You are saying at one time, in an older book, it said what you want it to say, but now it's abbreviated, and doesn't really say that, but open to interpretation to say what you want it to say.

The definition of "is" is is. Classic.

Until you can give actual proof on this, I'd say you are wrong. It's not like you guys haven't been wrong before and have had to recant.

Does Bombastic Bag-man come to mind? You guys had to recant that one.

And when you can't prove a rule, you just point to your shiny deputies badge. "I'm right because I have a badge." Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Are you seriously using THAT statement to demonstrate that you are not showing attitude?



And people go to ignore lists, not gulags.
I didn't say that. It's an abbreviation of the older phrasings used, like "after all current actions have resolved".

This issue isn't up for debate. That IS the definition. I'll make a note for consideration of adding it to the PG.

Honestly, that's the FIRST time I've pointed to that page. You are a new member having joined in April with under 20 posts. For all I knew, you had no idea what a deputy was. I was pointing you to that in case you weren't aware.

Ok. So here we go. First attack would not deal ANY damage assuming the targets do not already have a token. You do not deal damage unless they already have a token to start with. So when the second attack rolls around then they are dealt one damage from the first token and given a second token. This is where pushing comes in. You deal pushing damage as the rules state if it applies. By the time the whole multiattack incap is done you should have applied a total of 2 damage (assuming the target originally started with zero tokens to begin with).

You can only deal damage when the target already has a token. It does not work as give token then deal damage.

Hope this helps and woot for my first post.

As explained above, none of the damage happens until after both attacks.
Any pushing damage is applied as the Multiattack resolves. The extra damage is dealt after Multiattack resolves.

Kudos on the first post, though.

Dude, where ya been? been a while!

I hate this saying, especially when seeing it on a board that has a focus on super heroes. A much better quote is: "With great power comes great responsibility." And from that we can extrapolate: "With absolute power comes absolute responsibility."