Really WK, really? This is pathetic.. 4 range and 9 Attack for almost the entire dial. Really?

i totally agree with you. tim should have been way better for 80pts. the only hope for him now is his FFclix or we have to wait for the teen titans set. this was a real let down especially when the rest of the titans that have most recently come out have been pretty spot on. this will be the one titan i hope i dont get.

All I can say is he does bring the ability to taxi to the Bat Family.

I'll stick to my 79 point Tim Drake from Crisis. This saddens me. I hope there is another.

Why everybody complains about it? Here on HC everyone just love every stupid dial that comes out so now you gotta love Red Robin like you have loved some of the worst dials that came up until now :) So now I can say what a cool dial he has and undercosted too :cool: And what is to complain about this dial he is like the rear part of the 250 point dial of Dormammu and everyone likes it! please make more of this, please, really.

What to complain about: He has a 9AV for all but the opening click. He has running shot with a 4 range value. He has ES/D WITH A 4 RANGE! And why would you need toughness against range combat attacks when you already have perma-stealth from Batman Ally and +3 defense for standing in hindering. He has a 16DV and no reducers aganst close combat. He drops to a 7 movement with flurry for three clicks at the end which will never be used, and even if they are he will never hit anything with that 9AV. And worst of all His opening click has an 11 speed which is great, but on his only 10AV he has no move and attack, no attack power, a measley 17DV, and only two damage with leadership. He has absolutely no damage potential for an 80 point figure all you can do is taxi someone up and then roll for leadership, and probably miss. But once he's there he's useless because he only has a 4 range! With all the move and attack and willpower in the game now, if an opposing character is within 4 squares they are going to base and smash you on the next turn. And of course, as I mentioned once before Tim here is completely bare to close combat.

This is just not Tim Drake in his prime as Red Robin. This is a pathetic excuse for a rookie 12 year old Tim Drake as Robin on his first trip out of the Batcave.

Well, I'm not thrilled with his dial, but I don't think your giving him enough credit. For one, 9 attack for most of his dial is AWESOME. No, it's not that high, but he never dips into the 8s or (oh god) 7s like some figs do, even after he's been hit pretty hard. He also doesn't have Batman Ally unless you have another Batman ally. Parking in stealth is great, but it's nice that he doesn't have to be chained to a square of hindering. In fact, placing him in hindering ensures that your opponent is going to base him; leaving him a little open will give your opponent a reason to move out of the way to shoot him; a bit more of a gamble. He's pretty obviously built to push, too. Also, he's really only one of a handful of Batman Family characters with Flight; don't discount the power of the taxi; you'd pay 25 points for Dinah Soar and call it a good deal; Red Robin has some of that plus can push into a nice perplex. After taxi-ing a bit, bringing his fellows into battle, he can push into running shot. Why complain about 4 range? You know what 4 range is better than? 3, 2, or no range. He's not a damage powerhouse, but he's a tidy little support piece with a little bit of combat potential. Are there better ways to spend 80 points? Definitely. Are there better ways to spend 80 points on a Batman Family team? Probably. But I won't thumb my nose at him just because he's not exactly what I hoped for from the character. By that logic, fans of main universe Superman haven't had a viable Superman since Icons, seeing as the only 200+ point Superman we've had since is from All-Star Superman, and doesn't even have the JLA keyword because of it.

Perhaps you don't remember the Justice League superman or the Brave and the Bold Superman or the Nu52 one that were 226, 216 and 204 respectively.

And this Tim doesn't so much suck as he's just kind of half pointless and half counterintuitive. If you're looking for mobility for your Batman Team use Lieutenant Gordon whose better and cheaper. If you don't want to use him because you are already using commissioner Gordon then you're preventing yourself from using any of the far superior Tims because of wanting to stay in theme. If you want to get some use out of his leadership or Titan ability you're throwing away the Batman Symbol unless you're also using Nightwing, who was never a concurrent Member with Tim, so if you're throwing out theme there why cripple yourself with a subpar transporter.

Every time you try to optimize him for theme or playability there are just better options. In the end why Bother?

Not to change the subject on you here, but as for Supes, the FF 200/100pt Superman is a very good dial and has JLA, the 204pt Superman from DC52 is also a very strong dial, the 125pt Superman from JL52 FF is one of my favorite Superman figures to play period, and the 131pt Superman and BL Supermen from DC10 are both pretty good pieces.

Back to Red Robin however, I agree with you that he has potential and some effectiveness in a team if played right. But I sincerely hope they are putting a much stronger Red Robin in the FF pack, because I will only be reaching for this guy in the event of a sealed that I have no other choice. But, there are many better options for Tim Drake.

I would like to point out though that I like his powers. I would like to see some combat reflexes and more move and attack, and also higher values across the board, a 6 range instead of 4, and an improved movement ignore characters so that he can break away. I realize these things are a HUGE change to the dial but that's what I think is necessary to make a good Red Robin.

This dial would be a little easier to digest if it was 60 points, but for 80... I just don't see it getting use. Those 20 points can go a loooooooooong way in a 300pt team.

Well, maybe I was just speaking for myself about Superman. Superman should easily be 250 pts or more, especially given the 299 pt Sentry. I've never run the common Supes because he doesn't have the JLA keyword, and that's about the only team I'd run him on. The Martian Manhunter is very powerful, but Superman shouldn't be about on par with him; he should easily outclass him.
I do hope the FF Red Robin is more useful, but given how FF have been, he's probably going to be even less points, which means he'll probably represent the character even less well. But if all my dreams come true, that won't be the case, and they will all have the Batman Inc keyword.

Agreed. They have been making a LOT of rookie supermen because of the New 52 but even a rookie Supes should be more powerful. I think they're making smaller weaker dials so that he is easier to fit on to more teams. That's the only thing I can think of.

YUMMMMM! Sorry, had to when I didn't see it here. Actually the dial disappoints. More hope for the FF one.

"I know all of Bruce's tricks".... as long as he or someone else that also knows them is within 8 squares of me. How lame.

...and with the fast forces preview i can officially take this off the 'want' list