So I'm a real stickler for the rules. I love browsing this forum and observing how all the specific wordings of rules play out and applying the rulings to my play style.

So for 1st month of NML, my venue played 300 points from batman set on the prison map. I played twice on the "after quake" side with all of the water terrain. Now I was playing Batman 001 and Black Bat 010 both of which have IM hindering terrain. The first time I was playing with the water terrain, I informed my opponent that I read on here that since water is considered hindering terrain for movement, that IM hindering ignores water terrain on movement too (I remember reading this several times but please correct me if I'm wrong). That player accepted the ruling and we finished our game just fine. My next game, I told my next opponent the same thing and he disagreed, so we asked the judge for a ruling. Our judge (who is 21 like me..) went with the argument that IM water terrain is meant to move through water terrain and IM hindering is only meant to move through green hindering terrain..

I accepted his ruling, but it had drastic effects on the game since Batman and Blackbat could no longer run around on half of the map. I don't want to be a bad player and ever talk back or question the judge, but if an orange has ruled it on here, does that ruling overrule my judges ruling?

Thanks for your input!

Nope it wouldnt even overrule your judge if the RA himself was a participant in the event...but your judge can learn the right ruling.

The rule book clearly defines water as hindering terrain for movement purposes. There is no ambiguity there: the rule book says so.

If he chooses to rule it differently, well, he is the judge and he can do that. Make a house rule of it. But that's all it would be, a house rule. And it would be super awesome if he told everyone that he's changing the rules before the tournament began.

Your best bet is to get the judge on here so he can see the rulings himself. In the end the venues judge ruling wins.

I agree with you, I believe that the IM through hindering activates when running through water, as it acts as hindering for movement purposes, but not for line of sight.

Also, if an orange says yes here, you could always show your local judge.

This is probably more of an incorrect ruling situation then a House Rule situation...those are unfortunate by they do happen and carry as much weight as a correct ruling.

@OP:

You ACTUAL best bet is to show the judge the PAC, specifically the entries for Leap/Climb, Phasing, Great Size, and most importantly Flight.

All of those also are defined by using Improved Movement: Hindering (among others). If he's not going to let Batman and Black Bat ignore the water, well, he darn well better not be letting anyone fly over it either.
Eh...I'd say it depends.

The first time is a blown call. Once he is informed of his error, then continuing to rule it differently would require a house rule.

I think of house rules more along the lines of "Characters with HSS can't be used" or "Resource dials can't be assigned to characters over 100 points". Changing how an actual ability functions is just plain wrong as it throws the entire game out of balance.

If you want to have a little snarky fun, you could even take this a step further.

Suck it up and live with his blown call until you play against him. When you do, make sure you choose a watery map. The moment he tries to fly over the water, ask him how he is doing that. Then show him the PAC and remind him of what he said about Batman.



The unfortunate side effect might be bull-headed enough that he begins ruling the bad way for Flight et al.

No one can over-rule a Judge in a tourney, unless there is a Head-Judge. Generally if you are able to show your Judge the Orange ruling they will usually abide by it. However when there isn't always time to do so (if you didn't have it printed out) the Judge must make the best decision he can.

With all that out of the way I will say that the reason the judge probably got confused was because of the new notations for Improved Abilities. A person thinks (for whatever reason) that there is NOT overlap between improved abilities. If you browse the threads here you will see that some people think that Ignoring Figures for movement does NOT allow you to ignore Opposing Bases. Why? Because there is an Improved Movement Ability that does that. They don't realize there is a LOT of redundancy built into these Improved Abilities and all you need to do is read them carefully. Your judge falls into the same boat methinks. His thought is, you can ONLY ignore Water if you have the Ignore Water ability, or else why bother having it? He doesn't realize that they want to be able to make figures that can ignore JUST water.

If you show him the PAC entry and he doesnt get it I think we are moving into the Obtuse Zone dont you?

Sometimes, my buddies come to me when the local judge makes a ruling to see oif he got it right.

Sometimes he does and sometimes not. But I always make sure I remind the guys that:

The judge is always right, even when he's wrong.

He's not always right. He simply has the authority to force the wrong ruling.

It's bothersome but you just have to adjust to the judges ruling. Like the place I go to, you can outwit or perplex adjacent opposing in stealth. Showed him why it doesn't work but that's how he learned how to play

So he now knows that is wrong, but because he was taught incorrectly he feels he needs to teach others incorrectly rather than changing himself to be correct?!?!?

Sometimes I just can't figure people out.