The rule I'm wondering about is this one:

This is the rule that prevents Poison Ivy (who has smoke cloud on her dial) from using Gas Pellets (as granted by the Utility belt)....just to name one.

My question is........why is this a rule at all?

Poison Ivy's paying for the use of smoke cloud in her point cost, and paying for the use of gas pellets on the utility belt. Why shouldn't she get to use both?

I imagine my question is aimed more at game design than players, judges or RD's, but i'm looking for anyone to explain to me what the logic behind this rule might be. What would be the harm in allowing figures to use powers that they possess and ones they get through external game elements like objects, resources, etc. I can't for the life of me figure out why the restriction is in place.

Do you want to go up against a Gauntleted Eradicator with Shape Change, Super Senses, and then IG-granted Super Senses?

I'm with you on this one. As far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any harm in letting players choose one or the other because the core rules already prevent you from doing more than one non-free action each turn or activating multiples of the same ability as a free action. This rule just seems to add an unnecessary complexity level especially since the Oranges are currently ruling that you only ignore duplicate portion of abilities and not the entire resource.

Not really , but since he legitimately should be able to use all those powers, then I don't see why he shouldn't be able to use them. Someone with the Gauntlet SHOULD be really tough to take down, and if that character already has some ways to avoid being hit, it shouldn't be held against them.

The "because they'd be too good" defense doesn't really justify preventing them from using things they should be able to. I'd be like saying...Thor shouldn't be able to pick up Mjolnir because his numbers are high enough as they are.

I have a question.

Since we know the rule is that a character can't use a duplicate power/ability if they already possess it, why are you "paying the points" to use the effect in the first place?

No one is forcing the player to use Gas Pellets if they're using Poison Ivy. That's not a fault on game design, but on the player that doesn't know the proper rules.

pretty sure it started with the Crimson Gem, and having two instances of toughness, or Toughness and Invulnerability... no reducing damage by 3.

Good point. But what I think he's asking (and most players want) is to be able to choose which ability is used and simply ignore any duplication of abilities. So no double SS for Eradicator.

I disagree. You want to pay 40 points to use the most unbalanced element in the game, fine. No double-dipping in terms of powers.

I just don't see the functional difference there.

I have an answer. I wouldn't build my team knowing that this rule exists. My question for everyone here is...why does the rule exist in the first place.

Let's say it's Flash that has 4-6 SS instead of the standard 5-6. With what I'm suggesting is you chose which ability to activate and ignore the other. With the current wording you don't have a choice. You're either locked into what's on your character or resource, whichever is applied first (or sneaks in because of Outwit).

So let's use a non-extreme example instead. Grey Gargoyle can use Incapacitate. He stumble upon Mr. Freeze's gun and rolls successfully to pick it up. Sucks to be him, since the gun doesn't shoot cold-rays when he's using it because he can petrify people. That doesn't make sense at all.

This would be my solution as well.

First, I wonder if a moderator (Quebbster?) would care to excise the discussion on this topic from the Batgirl/Batarang thread and put it in here? It would remove some of the underbrush we grew there.

To the issue:
My understanding of the sequence of events is
*Metron come out with The Price of Knowledge
*Scorpio Key comes out in Captain America
*Someone asks if Metron can pick up the key and use that P/PB instead of his own, avoiding the risk of paying the price.
*Presumably Design is asked and says no
*We get a ruling and then this rules text to cover that and other similar interactions.

Is this a big deal? I don't know. It's arguable that if Metron picks up the Key or whatever he's paying to avoid TPoK: changing to "player's choice" would be OK IMO. I don't know that I want Poison Ivy using Gas Pellets (resource) andPoisonous Vines at the same time, and I can think of other combinations where it would be even worse to face. Between the possible "broken" combinations and the hassle of ruling how multiple effects are played I'd say it's better not to allow duplication.

Okay, I guess I see where you're coming from. I'd just wonder what the inevitable unseen ramifications would be.

You know that there'd be some munchkin somewhere who would find a way to break this.