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Okay, so I was doing some team building and ran into an interesting question. I'll post all the powers first, then propose my question.
Alyosha Kraven: ANIMAL INFLUENCE: If Alyosha Kraven was given a non-free action this turn, you may give Gulyadkin the Lion or another friendly character with the Animal keyword a move action as a free action.
Predator X: TRACK: At the begining of the game, choose an opposing character. When Predator X is given a move action and ends his move adjacent to that character, that is a free action instead. That character receives -1 to break away rolls when adjacent to Predator X. If that character is KO'd, choose another opposing character.
Okay, so here's the question. According to Kraven, I can give one friendly animal a move action as a free action so long as he took a non-free action. If I give that action to Predator X, and then later that round give Predator X a move action to end adjacent to his chosen target, does his move still become free? I know a character can't be given the same free action twice during a turn, but this seems to be an issue of wording. Predator X was given a free action move by Kraven, but Predator X's power specifics that he's first given a move action that then becomes free. Am I able to get those two moves for free? Or is the second move not going to become free? This seems tricky enough for an orange, but any input would be great.
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It would not become free, as you said you cannot give the same action in a turn as free actions.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
So instead of it become a free action after the fact, because he's already been given a free action to move he would instead have to take that move as a move action?
I can definitely understand that, but at the time of issuance the move is a move action, that has a qualifier to make it free instead.
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So instead of it become a free action after the fact, because he's already been given a free action to move he would instead have to take that move as a move action?
I can definitely understand that, but at the time of issuance the move is a move action, that has a qualifier to make it free instead.
Yes, but just like all other Free Actions, when it would become a Free Action you would ask: "Can he be given a Move Action as a Free Action?" No, he was already given one.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
The character didn't activate the effect with a free action.
If a character is able to be given the action to activate an effect, which Predator X can do because he isn't prohibited from being given a move action after having taken one as a free action, then the character gets to do what that effect says to do, and the effect says it becomes a free action instead.
If it couldn't become a free action, then he wouldn't be able to move adjacent to the opposing character at all after taking a free action move, because it becoming free isn't optional.
Yes, but just like all other Free Actions, when it would become a Free Action you would ask: "Can he be given a Move Action as a Free Action?" No, he was already given one.
I agree with MisterId. The check comes at the point when the action's "freeness" is determined. It doesn't matter what the action was when it was activated.
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
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Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business
I certainly see where MisterId is coming from; it's an absolutely fantastic point. That said, MoomPix's note regarding the non-optional part of Pred's power would then prevent him from ending his movement adjacent to his Track target if he can't end up taking that action for free.
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I certainly see where MisterId is coming from; it's an absolutely fantastic point. That said, MoomPix's note regarding the non-optional part of Pred's power would then prevent him from ending his movement adjacent to his Track target if he can't end up taking that action for free.
But the Track power doesn't make moving to get adjacent to the target of Track any easier. He could just move and end up adjacent with a non-free move action. He is being given a move action, then the "if" clause comes in, so it wouldn't affect the first part of the power.
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
I'd like to thank Origamiman for teaching me the ways of scarcastic abuse.
Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business
"A character may not activate the same game effect twice in one turn with free actions, unless the game effect indicates otherwise."
While he is definitely getting two move actions as free actions, the rule does not actually prohibit that. The rule prohibits activating the same effect twice in one turn with free actions. But he isn't activating the same effect with free actions: when he moves via Animal Influence he is moving as a free action. When he moves using Track he activates the move with a Move action which later becomes free if conditions are met. Additionally, I don't know that actions of any type are actually game effects.
I think he gets to do both.
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"A character may not activate the same game effect twice in one turn with free actions, unless the game effect indicates otherwise."
While he is definitely getting two move actions as free actions, the rule does not actually prohibit that. The rule prohibits activating the same effect twice in one turn with free actions. But he isn't activating the same effect with free actions: when he moves via Animal Influence he is moving as a free action. When he moves using Track he activates the move with a Move action which later becomes free if conditions are met. Additionally, I don't know that actions of any type are actually game effects.
I think he gets to do both.
I agree. The "...unless the game effect indicates otherwise" has this covered.
"A character may not activate the same game effect twice in one turn with free actions, unless the game effect indicates otherwise."
While he is definitely getting two move actions as free actions, the rule does not actually prohibit that. The rule prohibits activating the same effect twice in one turn with free actions. But he isn't activating the same effect with free actions: when he moves via Animal Influence he is moving as a free action. When he moves using Track he activates the move with a Move action which later becomes free if conditions are met. Additionally, I don't know that actions of any type are actually game effects.
I think he gets to do both.
Interesting point. I guess the word "activate" supports this.
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
I'd like to thank Origamiman for teaching me the ways of scarcastic abuse.
Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business