You are currently viewing HCRealms.com, The Premier HeroClix Community, as a Guest. If you would like to participate in the community, please Register to join the discussion!
If you are having problems registering to an account, feel free to Contact Us.
CRACK ENEMY COMUNICATIONS: At the beginning of the game, choose a team ability that an opposing character can use that isn't a Wild Card team ability or a team ability a Wild Card can't use. Friendly characters can use that team ability this game in addition to their other team abilities as long as Cypher is on the map.
Quote : Originally Posted by Stryfe
LEADER OF THE DISPOSSESSED: Stryfe can use Leadership. At the beginning of the game, choose up to 5 friendly characters. Those characters possess the Brotherhood of Mutants team ability as long as Stryfe has not been KO'd and they can't use another team ability.
One says that characters can use an additional team ability. The other says they can't. Which takes priority?
coming soon : nu52 Hercules
Anonymouse, the former Editor "in cheese" of HCRealms.com, is an author of "Marquee Primer" reviews and keeper of the MOUSETRAP blog.
Read my Heroclix articles
One says that characters can use an additional team ability. The other says they can't. Which takes priority?
Can't trumps can. But they also work independently. Stryfe ONLY grants BoM TA IF the target's can't use another TA. SInce Cypher makes it so that they CAN USE another TA, then Stryfe's power gets hosed.
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
I'd like to thank Origamiman for teaching me the ways of scarcastic abuse.
Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business
1.) Stryfe takes away any original TA they had printed on the dial (if any), which is where the "can't use another ta" comes in.
2.) Cypher grants a TA that they can use in addition to Stryfe's.
But I can see it ruled otherwise as well, with can't being interpreted totally and completely. What's causing the confusion then, is the "in addition" part of Cypher's text. They have a team ability (from Stryfe), and they can use Cypher's Team ability in addition.
Hurm.
coming soon : nu52 Hercules
Anonymouse, the former Editor "in cheese" of HCRealms.com, is an author of "Marquee Primer" reviews and keeper of the MOUSETRAP blog.
Read my Heroclix articles
1.) Stryfe takes away any original TA they had printed on the dial (if any), which is where the "can't use another ta" comes in.
2.) Cypher grants a TA that they can use in addition to Stryfe's.
But I can see it ruled otherwise as well, with can't being interpreted totally and completely. What's causing the confusion then, is the "in addition" part of Cypher's text. They have a team ability (from Stryfe), and they can use Cypher's Team ability in addition.
Hurm.
LEADER OF THE DISPOSSESSED: Stryfe can use Leadership. At the beginning of the game, choose up to 5 friendly characters. Those characters possess the Brotherhood of Mutants team ability as long as Stryfe has not been KO'd and they can't use another team ability.
The bolded part is only the requirement for Stryfe to grant the BoM TA....not the effect of doing so. Stryfe never "takes away" any abilities, he's just checking to see if you can use any before he grants you one.
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
I'd like to thank Origamiman for teaching me the ways of scarcastic abuse.
Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business
One says that characters can use an additional team ability. The other says they can't. Which takes priority?
It says they possess the Brotherhood team ability as long as they can't use another team ability. Cypher effectively neutralizes this trait when he grants them the ability to use the one he gives them.
I see what you saw, and at first thought Stryfe made it so they couldn't use other team abilities, but his power means the same as this:
LEADER OF THE DISPOSSESSED: Stryfe can use Leadership. At the beginning of the game, choose up to 5 friendly characters. Those characters possess the Brotherhood of Mutants team ability as long as they can't use another team ability and Stryfe has not been KO'd.
A comma (maybe) or putting the "they can't use another team ability" into a different sentence would have totally changed the meaning.
Your points are both valid but I just can't see passed the bolded below:
LEADER OF THE DISPOSSESSED: Stryfe can use Leadership. At the beginning of the game, choose up to 5 friendly characters. Those characters possess the Brotherhood of Mutants team ability as long as Stryfe has not been KO'd and they can't use another team ability.
It's not just that can't trumps can, it is also that the power says another not their own or additional. So not only is Strye's saying can't but it is broad and sweeping not confined or specific, as I see it.
Your points are both valid but I just can't see passed the bolded below:
LEADER OF THE DISPOSSESSED: Stryfe can use Leadership. At the beginning of the game, choose up to 5 friendly characters. Those characters possess the Brotherhood of Mutants team ability as long as Stryfe has not been KO'd and they can't use another team ability.
It's not just that can't trumps can, it is also that the power says another not their own or additional. So not only is Strye's saying can't but it is broad and sweeping not confined or specific, as I see it.
"They can't use another team ability" is a condition they must meet for them to possess the Brotherhood team ability, not a restriction on what they can do after being granted it. If a character on Stryfe's team already has the Avengers team ability, then Stryfe can't give them the Brotherhood team ability. He doesn't take away their ability to use the Avengers team ability, even if he chooses them.
It says they possess the Brotherhood team ability as long as they can't use another team ability. Cypher effectively neutralizes this trait when he grants them the ability to use the one he gives them.
I see what you saw, and at first thought Stryfe made it so they couldn't use other team abilities, but his power means the same as this:
LEADER OF THE DISPOSSESSED: Stryfe can use Leadership. At the beginning of the game, choose up to 5 friendly characters. Those characters possess the Brotherhood of Mutants team ability as long as they can't use another team ability and Stryfe has not been KO'd.
A comma (maybe) or putting the "they can't use another team ability" into a different sentence would have totally changed the meaning.
Ok I think I see what you guys are saying now. You are reading it as two specific conditions. I would love to find out the actual intent of this because I have always thought it was an addition to the end not a condition to be met.
Ok I think I see what you guys are saying now. You are reading it as two specific conditions. I would love to find out the actual intent of this because I have always thought it was an addition to the end not a condition to be met.
Exactly. They are conditions to be met.
Quote : Originally Posted by BlackIrishGuilt
I'd like to thank Origamiman for teaching me the ways of scarcastic abuse.
Quote : Originally Posted by JRTasoli
Oh my.......Holy..........mother.....I can't. I can't. This is just glorious. This is the Mona Lisa of sarcastic replies. Origamiman, you make it look like art.
Quote : Originally Posted by Danzig01
origamiman: From top to bottom, the best snarkster in the business
Ok I think I see what you guys are saying now. You are reading it as two specific conditions. I would love to find out the actual intent of this because I have always thought it was an addition to the end not a condition to be met.
For it to work the way you are arguing, it would likely have been phrased as:
LEADER OF THE DISPOSSESSED: Stryfe can use Leadership. At the beginning of the game, choose up to 5 friendly characters. Those characters possess the Brotherhood of Mutants team ability AND CAN"T USE ANOTHER TEAM ABILITY as long as Stryfe has not been KO'd.
Yeah, I always played this power way wrong. I assumed the only characters he could choose were ones that didn't already have TA's (or were assigned ATA's).
I didn't realize you choose a character with a TA, but they just couldn't use it. Interesting.
Doesn't seem very to matter too much, as I can't see a ton of situations where you would want to trade your TA for BoM (big swarm teams I guess), but nice to know.
Yeah, I always played this power way wrong. I assumed the only characters he could choose were ones that didn't already have TA's (or were assigned ATA's).
I didn't realize you choose a character with a TA, but they just couldn't use it. Interesting.
Doesn't seem very to matter too much, as I can't see a ton of situations where you would want to trade your TA for BoM (big swarm teams I guess), but nice to know.
No, they can't. This is a good summary here:
Quote : Originally Posted by MoomPix
"They can't use another team ability" is a condition they must meet for them to possess the Brotherhood team ability, not a restriction on what they can do after being granted it. If a character on Stryfe's team already has the Avengers team ability, then Stryfe can't give them the Brotherhood team ability. He doesn't take away their ability to use the Avengers team ability, even if he chooses them.
At the beginning of the game I choose which goes first. So I choose to use Stryfe to give all unaffiliated friendlies Brotherhood. I then have Cypher steal Mystics from my opponent. Now those unaffiliated have both Brotherhood and Mystics.