My apologies if this was already discussed, I just can't recall or find a previous discussion.

Ultraguy targets Joker with a ranged combat action to do his standard 4 damage, and he has EE. He also has . He hits Joker, who uses Mastermind to dump the damage to adjacent Harley. Harley takes the 4 damage, but since she wasn't targeted and is adjacent to Joker who was hit and assigned damage she is also effected by the EE AoE and takes 2 more. Do I have that right?

I don't see any other possible answer but yes, she gets "splashed" as all requirements for activating an area of effect were met.

Mastermind When this character would be dealt damage, you may instead choose to have all the damage be dealt to a single adjacent friendly character with a point value less than this character’s. Any additional effects of the damage dealt (knock back, penetrating damage, etc.) are applied to the character taking the damage. Damage dealt by this power is not an attack.

I would say that if Harley is having the damage transfered to her then the additional effect of EE would put the AoE to characters adjacent to her.

This is interesting to me in this way:

It sounds like EE is determined "after" the attack and damage is made rather than when the ranged combat attack is declared.

Not sure I can explain it in writing but here is my concern:

I thought it was ruled (or maybe its still up in the air) that Starfire makes a ranged combat attack and this activates EE and makes all her damage dealing penetrating.

1) Declare action

2) EE activated

3) See if hit

4) Area of Effect determined

5) Deal damage

With the above Mastermind example, I'm seeing it as the same. But the above ruling would mean this, wouldn't it?

1) Declare action.

2) See if hit

3) Deal damage

4) EE Activated

5) Area of Effect determined

Thanks for your time explaining where I'm mistaken.

I understand your point.But I need a clarification on this:
Harley may have been dealt the damage,via mastermind she still isn't the target of the attack.
Can you tell me how the area of effect can be transferred ?

I also have a question,if it is impossible to transfer the AoE.
If Joker deals the damage through Mastermind.Then as it isn't the damage from the attack.The attacker hasn't deal damage to a target of his attack.
Which is key for the "setting" of the area of effect.
So would mastermind prevent EE to function?

Thanks

That would mean defining the Area of Effect as dependent on where the damage is dealt rather than where the attack targeted and assigned damage, though. This actually came to mind when thinking about something else, but since EE specifies non-targeted characters adjacent to the target I would think the figure using Mastermind still would originate the Area of Effect.

Energy Explosion defines the Area of Effect as non-targeted characters adjacent to targets of the attack which were hit. We've had a clarification that if the target is hit and assigned damage it will activate EE. So my thinking is that Joker doesn't need to take damage to activate the effect: he was hit and assigned damage.

After going back and looking at Energy Explosions wording. I woukd say that there would be no Area of Effect. The Target was not dealt damage and would not activate the effects of Energy Explosion.

*Remember all of these things are being looked*

In the instance you outlined I would think that the Joker would Mastermind the damage away AND Harley would take 2 splash damage.

The reason I think this is because of how EE is worded. "Hit targets are dealt damage normally..." So, the Joker was the original target and therefore damage splashes outward from him. Transferring the damage doesn't change that the Joker was the target of the attack and therefore doesn't change the splash area.

Where the confusion comes from might be the line in MM that says, "any additional effects of the damage dealt are applied to the character taking the damage." However EE requires and utilizes targets to determine damage. What I'm trying to say is EE splash is not dependent on where the damage goes but who was targeted on the outset of the attack. EE splash damage is not a result of damage dealt but of successfully hit targets.

1). The Joker is targeted by Ultraguy with Harley adjacent to Mr. J.
2). The attack is rolled a hit.
3). The hit activates EE.
4). Damage is assigned. 4 to the Joker and 2 to Harley for her adjacency (and for Ultraguy's 2 bolts).
5). The Joker MM's his damage to Harley bringing her total to 6 and the Joker's to 0.
6). With no other effects to consider the damage resolves, end of action.

(Boy, I hope I'm not wrong on that or I'll look like a well-spoken idiot...)

Is the actual final errata'd wording of Energy Explosion even available yet?

I don't know. The article on the WizKids site said explicitly that hitting the target and assigning damage would activate the EE AoE. the final version might not look like that, but it's all I've got to go on right now.

Going with the projected EE change they gave on www.heroclix.com back on May 7th.

ENERGY EXPLOSION
When this character is given a ranged combat action and deals damage, an area of effect may include all untargeted characters that are adjacent to one or more targets that are assigned at least 1 damage from the attack. Hit targets are dealt damage normally, other hit characters are dealt 1 damage for each printed on this character’s base.

MASTERMIND
When this character would be dealt damage, you may instead choose to have all the damage be dealt to a single adjacent friendly character with a point value less than this character’s. Any additional effects of the damage dealt (knock back, penetrating damage, etc.) are applied to the character taking the damage. Damage dealt by this power is not an attack.


If a target of an EE attack Masterminds damage to someone in the Area of Effect, I would hope that the Mastermind-ee doesn't initiate another AoE. In the example provided, the Mastermind-ee is not the target of the attack and is not assigned damage from the attacker. EE generates AoE off of hit Targets.
If the Mastermind-ee (Harley) would generate an AoE from the damage transfer from the Mastermind-er (Joker), wouldn't that preclude them from taking the "splash" damage, since now she is being considered a target? And if MM damage transfer would confer target status to Harley and she generates an AoE, Joker should be taking the "splash" damage, which he would then be able to MM back to Harley.

I think I just hurt my brain. I'm going to take a nap, come back tomorrow, and see if this makes any more sense to me then.

I'd agree with your version so if you are an idiot you won't be alone we'll just have to wait for the oranges to rule on our idiocy.

I agree with the above poster that this looks like the best explanation about this ruling. Hopefully this is correct.

I agree with this. Joker was assigned damage, ergo the area of effect is created around him.