Old thread.

Feels good to be back where I belong. Naming the chit-chat threads.

I'm so glad to ahve you back, that I don't feel like saying anythign disparaging about the thread title. It's a weird feeling.

Hey. I went back and counted 61 chit-chat threads starting in '08/'09. I bet that's more legwork than anyone else puts into their thread titles!

Yeah, well, I don't feel that glad to have him back? Though kudos for doing the research, I guess.

Might need some replacements, I'm already missing actions. Grarararar.

My hat's off to you, man. I would have just guessed at it.

What the crap? When did the Dukes of Hazzard, more specifically the General Lee, become a symbol of racism? To me, it was always a lame junkfood show from my childhood.

@Pax: Sorry bud. I'll be sure to leave my signup thread open for more than 9 months next time

Oh, I don't know. Could be the huge flag celebrating the treasonous south.

I haven't checked the sign up threads in forever.

I only play in games that I'm invited to play in, I assume a certain level of awesomeness if a game needs to have me in.

The show itself had absolutely no racial overtones though. I live near one of the KKK headquarters and I've only seent he rebel flag flown on a few occasion where I thought it might have some racial meaning at all. More often than not, it's either someone who is proud to be from the south or someone who just associates with the underdog I guess. Very rarely does it mean the villainy it is protrayed to mean. I even have friends who do reenactments and revel in playing the south. They don't have a racist bone in their body. Just straight up history buffs. It like some people see it as flying a Nazi flag or something, but I just don't get it. Is it because I'm white?

Well, you're getting into a whole big discussion here, that could lead to some heated arguments. But I'll try and address it quickly:

The Confederate flag has become *the* symbol of the South, and it's treasonous actions against the United States. When people say it is just a symbol of Southern Pride, what they are saying is they are proud of is the reliance on slavery, and much later, Jim Crow laws. A simplistic answer, to be sure. *shrug*

Plus, more often than not, when I see Confederate flags - say, in Pennsylvania - these people have no history *with* the South, they are only sympathizing with something they have no connection to - which immediatley makes people think they are sympathaizing with what the South stood for.

Regarding re-enactments.... I've never understood that. But I never got LARPing either. Way I see it... both sides have to "act"... I wouldn't begrudge and actor for taking a role of villainy

eta: As always, Ta-Nehasi Coates has some of the best commentary on these things. This is just one small post of his

eta2: This one from a few years ago is good, too

Well, the swastika is a symbol that any number of old groups and beliefs have used, but because of the nazis it has since gotten tainted. Same is with the South. Just because a majority doesn't use it for that, it only takes a single bad apple to ruin a symbol.

I would also point out that what most people *think* is the Confederate flag isn't really the Confederate flag. *This* is the Confederate flag:



and *this* is a Confederate flag:



and *this* is a Confederate flag:



They switched from the first one (the Stars and Bars) because it led to too much confusion on the battlefield (it looks a bit too much like the Stars and Stripes). They switched from the second one because it looks, frankly, way too much like a flag of surrender. The third one didn't really see much use because the Confederacy collapsed about a month after it was introduced (the fact that Confederate lawmakers were dithering with flag design while the Union Army was shellacking their capital tells you everything you need to know about the priorities of those following "the Cause").

The flag you see on the General Lee is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The important bit there being "battle flag." It symbolizes armed rebellion against the legitimately elected government of the United States. Flying the battle flag in the 21st century sends the message, "Treason is an act that never goes out of style."

Racism is just one category of the evil that is discriminatory behavior Stan. You can't really know when someone is prejudiced against a certain race or ethnic group. Not every discriminator will come out and drops racial slurs. There is no bright line test. If you have any friends who are muslim or of middle eastern descent, ask them if they've experienced any strange treatment that they felt was race/religion driven in the post 9/11 world. I would think many would say yes. Though that is just a guess on my part.

And although it is a generalization (and I apologize for that), in my experience, yes, many white people have difficulty detecting racism (especially subtle racism) for whatever reason. And I apologize since that statement itself is somewhat racist. Maybe it's because they have never been discriminated against and don't know what to look for. The fact that there is a certain degree of subjectivity, especially with subtle racism, makes it even more difficult to define. What may be taken as racist behavior to one person, may not appear racist to others. For example, have you ever been offended by a polish joke? And even if you haven't, do you think some polish people have been offended by such jokes? Does that make them hyper sensitive?

Things like racial slurs are easy to identify. But things like swastikas and the confederate flags, could be just as offensive to some people.

I think us Made members have proven time and again that we're mature enough to not let this devolve into anything but a discussion.

Good points all around, but I guess I jsut don't see it that way. To me it's just a fashion fad type thing that certain people show off without any futher thought as to the deeper meaning. It's not done with malice for the most part as far as I can tell.

I can totally see that.

Thanks for the little history lesson. I find stuff like that fascinating. As for the show, I can see why they'd chose that symbolism given what the Duke boys stood for (albeit on a pretty shallow intellectual level), rebelling against an oppressive governmental system.