Okay, here goes:

I have Unique Spiderman (Infinity Challenge) at his first click (18 defense with Defend). Adjacent to him is my Vet Hulk, on his last click (15 defense with Regeneration). They are both in hindering terrain.

It is my opponent's turn. His Vet Bullseye is on his first click (11 attack, 2 lightning bolts, 1 damage = RCE) and has LOF to both Spidey and to the Hulk. He wants to finish off the Hulk and knows that he is on his last click. He decides, since one damage is enought o finish off the not-so-jolly green giant, to do a 2-target ranged attack; one shot on Hulk one on SPidey.

Spidey has an 18 defense, plus he is in hindering terrain. Since a LOF is being drawn to him that crosses hindering terrain, he is given +1 to his defense, per the rulebook:

"If a line of fire between two figures on the ground passes through any square or squares containing hindering terrain, including the square that the target occupies, add 1 to the target’s defense value."

Spidey's defense, since he is being targeted, is now a 19. he shares this 19 defense with Hulk.

Hulk now has a 19 defense, plus he is in hindering terrain. Per the rules, he gets a +1, and now has a 20 defense.

Bullseye needs a 9 to hit the Hulk and an 8 to hit Spidey.

Any comments?

He only shares the 18 base defense, not with any modifiers. You cannot recieve a bonus from something like terrain twice (once for Spidey, then additionally for Hulk)
They both have a 19 defense vs Bullseyes 11 attack.

No where in the rules does it say that only the printed value is shared for Defend.

Hulk is not receiving the terrain bonus twice. He only receives it once.

His defense value is a 19. Hindering only adds +1 to that once.

When Defend or the Defenders ability is used, the adjacent figures can borrow the printed defense value (which can be perplexed.)


This is a direct quote from Heroclix1234 (1 of the better judges on heroclix.com, and here I think) from a thread a bit ago.
If you are sooooo sure of yourself, why did you even post this thread? I am sorry, but you are playing it incorrectly, but there are always house rules....

I'm not soooooo sure. I just want a valid argument against it. Not "such and such said this" or "you are playing it incorrectly."

I have not found any reasons why this doesn't work, but everyone seems to disagree with it. I will accept that it is wrong when someone shows me why it is.

As of now, you have not.

I just gave you a quote from a heroclix.com thread from one of the most respected and knowledgable judges there. If that is not enough, I'm sorry.

remy, I've seen it ruled before that you share the printed value, not enhanced by the terrain modifier. It's not in the FAQ that I can find (but that's nothing unusual), but there is something similar in the Defenders description: "The number value, non-enhanced or aided by any power is the only value shared among these figures. " That's about the closest I have to an official ruling on this.

I'm positive that, if not ruled already, they will rule that you can share a perplexed value but not a hindering-enhanced one.

The perplex sharing is officially ruled actually now Spirit.
He could perplex up Spideys defense to 19, and share that with the Hulk, and then get +1 for terrain on top of that.

So, TheSpirit has given some good evidence. He's good at that sort of thing.

But the "printed value" thing has to be thrown out because Perplex can "successfully be used through the transitive property of Defend."

I hope that you are right that they will rule on this soon, TheSpirit. I'm starting to question the fabric of reality with this one.

Wow, he wants responses, then ignores me. I'm glad the Spirit gave you such concrete evidence as "I've seen it somehwere", although I'm not bashing Spirit here. Defend is printed value (judges say it is), and Perplex with defend is an official rule.
It's too early to waste my time on threads like this, but I'm glad Remywokeup might have finally woken up...*yawn*

What are you debating remywokeup? Defend allows Spiderman to share his DV with any adjacent figure so Hulk's DV jumps up to 18 and then they both go up because they both are in hindering Terrain. So that makes the defense 19.

As far as perplex goes u can perplex it all u want but the effect only last for the duration of your turn so the DV will still go back to 19.

(tylk, I know about the Perplex ruling; it's the hindering enhancement I was speaking of.)

Yes, it's a weird one. I'm guessing it was written into the FAQ, then got deleted when they added that transitive property garbage (which I completely disagree with, in case you haven't guessed). They probably didn't realize what they were doing when they revised it for Perplex. The Defenders FAQ info I quoted is probably a vestige of the previous ruling that hasn't been deleted/revised yet.

Let's hope the IndyClix rule book straightens these things out. 'Til then, I'm sticking with my own rule book.

What I'm debating about is that I want to know "why?"

Judges can be wrong, so simply telling me that Judges rule it one way or the other is arbitrary. Defend says that they share their Defense Value. Hindering terrain gives them a +1 to their Defense Value. I don't see why this doesn't work.

To Tylk: I didn't ignore you. I was typing my reply to TheSpirit when your post came through. I'm not trying to argue with anyone.

What I'm trying to say here is that Defend doesn't say "printed value" anywhere. Defenders does. This is obviously an over-sight on WizKids part. They should be identical.

The fact that the Perplex ruling contradicts the Defenders even further confuses things.

I believe that WizKids truly intends for my scenario to be false. I also believe that under the current rules, it is true.

Let's hope

1)Wizkids rule makers are working over-time, as we are all getting tired. It's a fairly simple game (although, I think many would agree that a few people heavily into Heroclix could probably iron out 99% of the rule issues in 1 day of discussion and playtesting.Kind of pathetic)

2)Indy clix gets here soon with its hopefully all new and updated rule book

3)I win a super sexy Whitney Frost sometime soon!

I have a Whitney Frost!

I used her once. I still think Black Panther is a more cost-effective Outwitter, but the Outwit/Poison/Mastermind combo works wonders against the big-guns.

I'm hoping for the Electra. Not because I like the character, just because the figure is so darn good.