This week Steve and Jeremiah talk about all the solicitations, Batman TV, Mage Knight and What? Team Dials again!

Okay, so the big thing I wanna respond to is the deal with Team Bases. Jeremiah mentioned that he put down a challenge to someone to explain why he liked team bases, and while he never said if the guy's response was good enough to convince him or not, I'm going to throw my own proverbial hat in the ring. Incoming!

To me, team bases represent the really big moment where a team really buckles down and bands together to fight some incredible threat, and as a result are able to combine their powers and achieve greater efforts than they ever could fighting separately, as represented in most regular team builds. And heck, there are some teams where just seeing the full line-up is an epic moment; I'm not too knowledgeable of the Hellfire Club, but the team base is literally the Inner Circle, the Kings and Queens all working together. Having to fight the Black King and his flunkies are one thing, having to fight all four members of the Hellfire Club Inner Circle is a whole other beast. I love those big, final-battle, "united we stand, divided we fall" moments, and team bases are pretty much that two-page spread in the comic when the whole team's posing together all badass before they fight Galactus or something.

Another reason to appreciate team bases is this: Let's say Timmy grew up reading X-Men around the time of Blue Team/Gold Team, and he really identified with the mutants of Blue Team. Their problems were his problems, their successes were his successes, and their stories always gave him something to look forward to growing up. So he feels a very strong attachment to this team. If team bases did not exist and Timmy had to make the team based off of, say, the dials in WatX, fielding the entirety of Blue Team is only possible in 700 points; not exactly a common level of play. He could field Wolverine, Cyke, and Jubilee in 300. He could field Beast, Psylocke, and Rogue at 300. He could field them in various combinations, but unless it was a really big game, he wouldn't be able to field the entire team he had grown to love. But he has the team base! Now he can play the entirety of Blue Team in as little as 200 points, and it even has special powers that represent key points in their story that he gets to re-enact! Timmy can not only field the members individually as always, but he can still use the full roster that excites him in lower point games! He can even add to it! What if Nightcrawler was a part of Blue Team? Field the 200 point base and Nightcrawler from the very same set and find out!

One last note somewhat related to that last one: Team bases are great for filling out a minor team in one fell swoop and give you a little variety. Take Nextwave, for example. As of right now, if you want to field Nextwave as they appear in their comic, you have basically one option - playing them all together in a 500 point game. You can't even use the ATA. You can use them separately, but it's just not the same. Or you could give them a team base in a future Marvel set and not only give us five new dials for the whole team, but one collective team base giving you a wider variety of chances to play them in! Imagine being able to field all of Nextwave in 400, 300, or even a 200 point game! It helps with the issue people have of having Character A, B, and C in one set and having to wait one or two sets in the future (or even more!) for Characters D and E to finish off the particular team lineup.

I respect you for trying to fix them up a bit, Steve, but I think your proposed fixes are really just complicating things even more. I was trying to envision how your ideas would work, and I found myself with more questions than answers, whereas most of the team base rules can honestly be summed up well enough in one or two sentences each. I mean, the dial of the team base itself, I think, is meant to be a collection of powers that sort of represent what the entire team is capable of when they're working together so closely, especially taking into consideration some powers being representative of multiple characters putting their powers together to accomplish even greater feats (for instance, the top-dial of Blue Strike Force having P/PB representing Scott and Remy's long-range blasts with Prob being themed as Betsy getting mental insights as to what's about to happen and giving them backup, whereas near the end, Charge/Blades represents Logan shoving Scott to the side and saying "Okay my turn to lead" and bringing the team in for blood).

But what really makes the team base feel like a team is the Asset Dial - the intent, at least in my eyes, is that you roll through it as the game goes on to represent different characters taking center stage and letting their talents shine through. The issue is that they let you sit on the Asset you're currently on, which when they topload the best Asset is what causes, say, the Justice League Team Base to feel more like The Aquaman and Cyborg Show (Also Starring Their Wacky Friends!).

But I mean, that's how a game works, really. Players will often want to optimize what they can, and if playing a notable team base and sitting on the first asset gives them the best, most reliable chance at victory, well, why wouldn't you do that if you just want to win? I think that's a problem that lays half on the design of team bases (for being relatively easy to break) and half on the players themselves (not in the sense that they should be blamed for wanting to win, but just because it's really up to the player if they're going to cheese it with a team base or not). Yeah, Spikes can be rough to deal with when they just latch onto what works and never deviate, but there's always the Johnny/Spikes that want to prove themselves by optimizing something interesting and creative.

This got long and rambly, I'm sorry. But I have a lot of feels about team bases. They could use a tweak or two, yes (I have been very fond of the idea that Working Together is only usable when the Team symbol is showing on the Asset dial). But I think they're fun, exciting, and evocative, and I would honestly be disappointed if Wizkids just abandoned them.

That was an incredibly well thought out post. Thank you for that.

It doesn't make me like the way they play any more, but it certainly gives me reason to like the intent. Somewhere there has to be a middle ground.

On the team base topic, I think they hit the nail on the head with the design. The team base design doesn't feel over powering, its the crazy stats and TAs (talking about JL). You have a full 600 pt X-men Blue hitting for 6 dmg a pop, 6 times, if that represents the characters.....when has Jubilee ever been able to do 6 dmg? In a 600 point game you can't get 6 figures to be able to hit for 6 dmg a hit.

Because of working together the dmg should never be higher than 3-4 or the dmg needs to be -1 per action. Then you have JL with stealth, stealth buster...The stats and TA's just seem to need pulled back some.

That's a good idea. If the damage output worked like Duo Attack where it was replaced with the base damage minus each attack made that turn, it would be far more fair.

The X-men no matter how "united they stand" should EVER have the equivalent stats of a colossal Thanos. You can justify it all you like....the five actions aren't what breaks teambases. Its the ridiculous stats/powers that can be used during working together five times a turn.....its not comic accurate or game balanced. Its stupid ....

This just in from Wizkids, the ability name "Working Together" has been errata'd to be called "Actually Only Our Weakest, Rookiest Member Is Attacking And All Of The Really Skilled Big Damage Guys Are Chilling And Eating Sandwiches".

You mentioned Watchmen as a learning experience for WK, but I think they took the wrong lesson from it and the original Collector's sets: instead of figuring out why they were downers for the most part, they've shifted to the Gravity Feed model. This isn't entirely a bad thing, especially when generics are going to be included in a set...WK still seems to think a single copy of a generic that's meant to be played in multiples is a good idea for a boxed set that also includes figures that aren't generic, and nothing makes Sulk sadder (you not like Sulk when he get sad). I think a happier middle-ground would come from a hybrid: for most gravity feed sets, include the option to purchase a limited run of boxed sets that are a factory set packaged the way a Collector's set would be. It doesn't need to be Watchmen box level, just a larger version of the original Collector's Sets would probably sell. This may just be wishful thinking, though...it seems most people who want complete gravity feed sets just buy whatever number of boxes 'gurantees' it, then sell or trade off the extras they don't want.



You have played against them and seen the play reports, right? Your particular brand of continuing insanity and dislike for the concept isn't going to change what StarkMaximum posted. Working Together is the guilty party for giving a team base the actions it needs to win games without even detaching members. Speaking of which, and more to the 'implementation of TBs failed even though I like the idea', I posted at the end of the 'why hc doesn't need a ban list' thread, but there was a great analysis (curse me for not remembering who did it or bookmarking it or something) that demonstrated pretty well how simply changing Working Together to be what the team attack symbol on the asset dial does instead of what the symbol on the combat base means brings team bases more in line with Colossals. Considering how crazy JLA and SIG are, though, a -1 Damage when using the ability may be justified as well. Considering that the base is always forced to turn the dial when the asset dial shows that symbol, bases have it present for less than a 1/3rd of the dial as a general rule, and that the particularly abused bases don't 'open' with it, it would be worth seeing what that change would have on the meta. They definitely need SOME tweak, and I can't really blame the haters at this point. I'm hoping we can still find that middle ground.

So the original definition was "Our hardest hitters hitting over and over every turn doing maximum damage 6 times a turn (don't worry, it's fair!)"?

No, the original definition was "You don't get jokes and can't communicate anywhere other than on a soapbox", which I feel was oddly specific and has nothing to do with the game, but hey, Wizkids works in mysterious ways.

Good show. I agree that with the way the prizes are set up for AvX, a player will likely walk away with participation prizes worth the entry fee for the tournament.

To Steve and Jerimiah, dont forget that wer getting participation-prize Team Bases in AvX. After that, I dont know whats in line for Super Boosters. I was hoping to get Marvel vehicles in the Iron Man set.

Didn't I mention that in the podcast?

I really appreciate you guys continuing to give us listeners some quality programming concerning a subject that I constantly am learning about. Jeremiah, I value your opinion as well as Steve's. Thanks for your dedication and willingness to share your knowledge with us. You truly help me in becoming what I feel is what everyone's ultimate goal is, a better Clix player. I can't wait for your next episode!