This week Steve ann Jeremiah talk about some of the new figures previewed this week. Lots of talk onDeadshot and The "Watchlist". Also some OP kit Talk. Tune in!

Wizkids may be listening, but it is to the wrong people. It seems they are listening to very small and very vocal player base here on the realms.

What do you mean? Do you not agree with the need to fix the items on the Watch List? That there are problems with Event OP allocation?

I agree with a lot of it. I just dont like that Wizkids seems to assume the hcrealms speaks for the majority of clix players. This site consists of a very small percentage of actual players. Most players I know refuse to contribute to this site because of the hysteria, and I just worry that Wizkids buys into it.

Even if it's the vocal minority, I'd rather they listen to somebody as opposed to turning a blind eye and continuing to produce a poorly balanced game.

You are kinda right, Realms is only a small portion of the Heroclix Community. I don't think it's as small as you think though. So they are paying attention. I know a lot of players who aren't members of the site and just lurk, while not contributing to anything they are still here looking around, reading articles and building teams and forming opinions, they just aren't vocal. Wizkids knows that. They've used this site to poll ideas, and voice concerns.

According to some fancy survey service, for every 1 person who complains 26 people keep their mouth shut. So even if it are only a few people complaining it is enough. Besides going to venues and cons, this is really the only avenue for Wizkids to communicate with Players. Their Facebook presence pales in comparison to this site.

I wouldn't worry about them "buying into hysteria". They have a good head on their shoulders and know how to filter "player content" from the legitimate issues and ignore the silly ones.

They REALLY should put a small forum area onto their official site, for those that don't find their way here, or for those that don't care for HCR.

I agree with this. If they changed the game for every complaint the vocal minority came up with the game would never have a solid rule set for more than a week.

I think WK listens to the HCR community here somewhat, but I also think the danger is that they seem too insular and they listen to their own little community too much (hence the problems we've had with playtesting and design - or lack thereof). Everything they've done recently is a step in the right direction, but may be "too little, too late."

shifting gears:

A 200 point Batman is just a vanity piece for 500+ point games. Anymore I feel like design shifted away from a 300 point base "benchmark" model, and favors 600 to 1800 point home games (I say home games because it gets hard to play a 600 to 1800 pointer in 50 minutes or less).

You can see this in the team builds available at 3-400 points. You're not going to be able to play comic accurate lineups (like Steve was saying about Thunderbolts) when every figure is 100 to 150 points (like Deadshot). The Outsiders, The New Mutants, etc. At best you get 3, maybe 4 figures on a team, which is a huge shift away from the traditional team builds. This also may have been one of the driving thoughts behind including team bases.

I do think they like to throw out more "vanity" figures like 400 point Thor, the Avenger's Prime (the first team base!)... big pointed show boat pieces that aren't realistic in any stretch on the imagination.

These are good attention draws to the game and talking points for people, but completely unpractical in every sense. These are the giant menu items you see on Man vs Food - the old 86'er, that are a challenge to play, and a bit of a threat of a point cost investment to the one fielding it.

The real problem with 400 point Thor or Avengers Prime, is that in a 400 point game, they can't stand up to other 400 point elements, which is just a sign of imbalance. It's okay that they make these "uber-figs" but what they really need is some kind of benchmark to weight these pieces against the existing elements to determine if it is balanced or not.

Not if you limit the # of figures you can play at that level. Try it with no more than 1 figure per 200 points total. That way you can still run a swarm team with a colossal, or just a big point team. That cuts down on the # of actions you can take. [/quote]Don't call Avengers Prime a team base. They are no where near that level of cheese. They are more like a duo figure done well.This is so true. Just because a figure is big on points doesnt mean it should have an "Auto-Curb-Stomp" power, but it doesnt mean they should be easy points either.

This should be Punishers new Special Power! Curb Stomp!

400 point Thor...

Haven't looked at him yet. Saw him in passing, but didn't want to look too closely in fear of spoilers. But my jaw hit the floor. Even I think that is ridiculous.

While I think that 150 point Deadshot is pushing the boundaries I also take into account that he's a silver bullet of sorts for the bat family (at least within this set). With improved Targeting releasing soon, the Bat-TA drops considerably in worth, as more figures will be busting stealth. Within the set itself, he may be balanced, and while his attack values and damage capability may justify his point value, he's every bit as fragile as his 75th counterpart, opening with a 17 defense and Toughness.

Any more the game isn't about defense - they give out 11's these days to just about anyone, and when you can drop a hammer on someone for a +2 bump, even 19's are easy to hit. No move and attack top dial is going to hurt him a lot.

I'm in agreement though - Deadshot's not someone who deserves a 150 point version, unless we're raising the bar for all figures - which seems to be the case anymore.

bmao016 V Deadshot
Team: Calculator
Range: 8
Points: 150
Keywords: Arkham Asylum, Assassin, Gotham City Underworld

8 12 17 3

8 11 16 3

9 11 17 3

9 11 16 2

8 10 16 2

8 10 16 2

8 10 17 3

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

(Improved) Up Close, At Range, No Difference: Improved Targeting: Ignores Hindering Terrain

(Special) Hired Assassin: During your first turn, choose an opposing character. If Deadshot KO's that character, you score an additional 50 victory points.

(Special) I Never Miss: If Deadshot targets a single opposing character with a ranged combat attack, he can use Probability Control for that attack.

Listening right now and the cast is at the smoke cloud part.

TT Robin with the free smoke cloud has become a staple of every Batman Family team I run.

AFAIK, it sounds like some of the key feedback they used for the Watch List came at GenCon during the semi-final and final rounds. They're not just relying on the Realms.

Good point. This would have been in place a few months ago / a year ago if they listened to the Realms.

The topic that spoke to me is characters vs cost and I totally agree with theavengerthor when it comes to characters needing to be priced "right".

An example I point to is GSX Professor X. I have one and have never used him. The reason - 123 points is a lot for a character I don't start building a team with.

I have never said to myself, "Self - man, I could really play Professor X today. That movie / comic really inspired me to build a Prof X team!"

If I want to play the X-Men, I'm starting with Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Cyclops, Colossus, Psylocke, Beast, etc. Hence 123 is a non-starter.

Same with Deadshot at 150 - I like him as the hired gun in the background - the guy on the Secret Six or from Justice League Unlimited - none of those appearances justifies 150 points. Honestly, I was willing to trade away my 75th Bane because 148 points just wasn't team friendly.

Hawkeye is another one I run into problems with. 98 point Chaos War is a lot of points. I haven't used him because I like Clint between 60-80 points and I have choices in that range.