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AND THE WINNER IS... : (non-optional) Once per game, when this power is first revealed, you must choose Superman or The Flash. For all other Special Powers for this character, only use the powers of the chosen character this game. This character has the fist attack symbol. This power can't be countered or ignored.
Also,
KEEPING PACE: Before any non-free action, you may replace Superman and The Flash's speed value with the highest unmodified speed value among characters on the map until that action is resolved. Use this ability only if you haven't chosen Superman or the Flash.
First question:
Superman and The Flash are hit to click 6 revealing And The Winner Is. I choose Superman or Flash
I then Split them into Superman and Flash
I heal Superman to top dial and then Merge them back into Superman and The Flash (separate turns I know)
Superman and The Flash are now on click #1. Is the And the Winner is still active?
With Keeping Pace would that prevent them from gaining the highest speed value on the board?
I believe the answer is that And The Winner Is would still be active and they would no longer be able use Keeping Pace, however one of my players told me that they are now technically considered to be a "new" character since they were replaced and then brought back...
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
Dragon is correct. Dragon is always correct. Never argue with a Dragon.
I believe once and the winner is... is active you can no longer split/merge as its an ability granted by the duo symbol and you no longer have that you have the fist instead.
I believe once and the winner is... is active you can no longer split/merge as its an ability granted by the duo symbol and you no longer have that you have the fist instead.
Quote : Originally Posted by ShinAkuma2
Good catch, Nychus.
The "Winner" doesn't have the Split ability anymore.
Right, but when you heal them back off of And The Winner is the no longer have that power and the power does not say that they do not gain the duo ability back. So if you heal them back up to click number 1-4 then you could use the Split Ability.
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
Dragon is correct. Dragon is always correct. Never argue with a Dragon.
Right, but when you heal them back off of And The Winner is the no longer have that power and the power does not say that they do not gain the duo ability back. So if you heal them back up to click number 1-4 then you could use the Split Ability.
I would be under the impression that regardless of whether or not this power is showing, they will then possess the fist icon for the rest of the game. That seems like the intent, like with Doom Kang.
Also, important note: at the beginning of the game when they are a duo, they can only activate split. Once this power is showing and they have they can only activate merge. No single figure is ever capable of using both split and merge.
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
Also, important note: at the beginning of the game when they are a duo, they can only activate split. Once this power is showing and they have they can only activate merge. No single figure is ever capable of using both split and merge.
Does this mean that we cannot have Booster Gold from Batman merge as long as he is on this power:
Does this mean that we cannot have Booster Gold from Batman merge as long as he is on this power:
This is true. He cannot merge at that time, only split (except, he can't use split well, since he has no qualifying names or real names to split into).
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
This is true. He cannot merge at that time, only split (except, he can't use split well, since he has no qualifying names or real names to split into).
I am not disagreeing with you but just curious, where is it stating that a character can't possess both the and at the same time?
I am not disagreeing with you but just curious, where is it stating that a character can't possess both the and at the same time?
2013 rulebook page 19:
Characters possessing other combat symbols possess combat abilities as specified on the Powers and Abilities Card. Unless specified otherwise, these combat symbols replace the symbols currently possessed by the character.
I would be under the impression that regardless of whether or not this power is showing, they will then possess the fist icon for the rest of the game. That seems like the intent, like with Doom Kang.
That would be an assumption on your part. And an incorrect one according to the Player's Guide. Page 4-9 states:
If ―And the Winner Is…‖ is no longer on the dial, its effects end
immediately. However since the choice of either Superman or
The Flash is only made once per game, if the power returns to
the dial you must continue to use the choice already made
Quote : Originally Posted by anthony_barnstable
Also, important note: at the beginning of the game when they are a duo, they can only activate split. Once this power is showing and they have they can only activate merge. No single figure is ever capable of using both split and merge.
Sorry man but, you are wrong here as well. Duos that lose the duo ability can use the Merge ability. So when Superman and Superman gain Earthbound they no longer poses the instead poses Once they do they have the real name of Clark Kent or Kal-el which could be used to Merge with Wonder Woman to form the Superman and Wonder Woman duo.
With all of that the original question still stands. If And The Winner is power is revealed and I then use the Split Ability and later use the Merge ability Does Keeping Pace activate or not?
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
Dragon is correct. Dragon is always correct. Never argue with a Dragon.
That would be an assumption on your part. And an incorrect one according to the Player's Guide. Page 4-9 states:
If ―And the Winner Is…‖ is no longer on the dial, its effects end
immediately. However since the choice of either Superman or
The Flash is only made once per game, if the power returns to
the dial you must continue to use the choice already made
[SNIP]
With all of that the original question still stands. If And The Winner is power is revealed and I then use the Split Ability and later use the Merge ability Does Keeping Pace activate or not?
You pretty much answered it yourself here. Did you choose for And The Winner Is this game? If so, you've chosen and that fact doesn't change regardless of Split/Merge.
You pretty much answered it yourself here. Did you choose for And The Winner Is this game? If so, you've chosen and that fact doesn't change regardless of Split/Merge.
Not really. It says if the power returns to must keep the original choice, however that does not change the actual question at hand. This is due to the fact that the Duo is removed from the game.
The question is does removing them from the game reset And the Winner Is? I ask because when you replace a character that character is no longer considered to be a part of your force. This leads to the thought that once you bring the character back it is considered to be a new character since it was not part of your force.
REPLACING CHARACTERS
Certain game effects will call for a character to be
replaced with one or more other characters on the
map. When assembling your force, you identify
these replacement characters although they are
not yet on your force. Replacement characters’
point values are not added to your build total.
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
Dragon is correct. Dragon is always correct. Never argue with a Dragon.
That would be an assumption on your part. And an incorrect one according to the Player's Guide. Page 4-9 states:
If ―And the Winner Is…‖ is no longer on the dial, its effects end
immediately. However since the choice of either Superman or
The Flash is only made once per game, if the power returns to
the dial you must continue to use the choice already made
Up to this point is correct
Quote
Sorry man but, you are wrong here as well. Duos that lose the duo ability can use the Merge ability. So when Superman and Superman gain Earthbound they no longer poses the instead poses Once they do they have the real name of Clark Kent or Kal-el which could be used to Merge with Wonder Woman to form the Superman and Wonder Woman duo.
This part is incorrect. Since the characters name is not changed, Superman and Superman, or Clark Kent and Kal-El are not valid names for merge. Remember that the whole name stays the same even if they lose
Quote
With all of that the original question still stands. If And The Winner is power is revealed and I then use the Split Ability and later use the Merge ability Does Keeping Pace activate or not?
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
Not really. It says if the power returns to must keep the original choice, however that does not change the actual question at hand. This is due to the fact that the Duo is removed from the game.
The question is does removing them from the game reset And the Winner Is? I ask because when you replace a character that character is no longer considered to be a part of your force. This leads to the thought that once you bring the character back it is considered to be a new character since it was not part of your force.
REPLACING CHARACTERS
Certain game effects will call for a character to be
replaced with one or more other characters on the
map. When assembling your force, you identify
these replacement characters although they are
not yet on your force. Replacement characters’
point values are not added to your build total.
The Game Effect of them choosing will remain when using Merge to bring the figure back onto the board.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
Up to this point is correct This part is incorrect. Since the characters name is not changed, Superman and Superman, or Clark Kent and Kal-El are not valid names for merge. Remember that the whole name stays the same even if they lose
Right but for Superman and Superman it says Clark Kent OR Kal-El it does not say Clark Kent AND Kal-El. So using their real names should work.
Quote : Originally Posted by MisterId
The Game Effect of them choosing will remain when using Merge to bring the figure back onto the board.
Even though the split characters are not able to use said effect?
If the answer to that is yes then my next question would be:
I begin the game with Superman And The Flash duo plus 100 Pt Superman and 100 Pt Flash. I get knocked to the And The Winner Is power so I split the Superman And The Flash duo. I then use the 100 Pt Superman and 100 Pt Flash that began the game as a part of my force to Merge into Superman And The Flash would that new merger be impacted?
Further I could also do this with just an extra Superman or Flash on my team as when I split I choose one of them to gain the game effects that were attached to the duo so if my Force is Superman And The Flash plus the 101 Pt Flash I could Split Superman and The Flash and then put the And The Winner is Game effect onto the now Split Flash and then Merge the Superman with the 101 Pt Flash to Rest the And The Winner Is Power correct?
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
Dragon is correct. Dragon is always correct. Never argue with a Dragon.