You are currently viewing HCRealms.com, The Premier HeroClix Community, as a Guest. If you would like to participate in the community, please Register to join the discussion!
If you are having problems registering to an account, feel free to Contact Us.
Well, for the past two weeks I've been spot-binging on DS9 via hulu. When it was actually out, I maybe got thru season 2 and then my viewing got spotty so I never really got into the full swing of the Dominion Wars. As such, I've been skimming thru Season 3 onward to get a better understanding of how the whole War started and each faction got involved.
It has been refreshing to have some more info on some of the expansions and OP events. As such, I figured I'd share a few of my finds for those who are in my position and have not watched all 7 seasons of DS9.
OP1 - Call to Arms (Season 5, Episode 26)
This is where the Self Replicating Mines come in and where I really see the Dominion War take off. IN all honesty, I think players could start here and just move forward for an adequate understanding of the OP events. This episode thru episode 6 of Season 6 is a good chunk to binge thru in one setting. It also give some insight to...
Koraga - Sons and Daughters (Season 6, Episode 3)
Interesting to watch and see how each the Crew is implimented.
LE Ch'Tang - Once More Unto The Breach (Season 7, Episode 7)
This episode is really a great look at Martok and his ship. I got the biggest grin on my face when he ordered Defense Condition One.
OP2 - Tears of the Prophets (Season 6, Episode 26)
The OWPs were really deadly in this event. Go see why...
OP3 - The Siege of AR-558 (Season 7, Episode 8)
War is Hell. This is an amazing episode that has so little space combat but is crazy-good in depicting how ground-war impacts the Federation which is normally a peaceful faction.
That's all I've got at the moment. I'm still in the 2nd half of the final season but love how much depth the designers are actually tossing nto the game components.
Other episodes of note:
In the Pale Moonlight (Season 6, Episode 19) - Love how well this thing was written. Gives you great insight to Sisko and Garek (hope to see him soon!).
The Magnificent Ferengi (Season 6, Episode 10) - it's a throw away episode in the grand scheme of the war but so funny.
In Purgatory's Shadow (Season 5, Episode 14) - a great episode to watch that gives some insight into Martok (8) & Martok (9).
To the Death (Season 4, Episode 23) - a great Jem'Hadar episode.
The Sword of Kahless (Season 4, Episode 9) - another throw away episode but it's fun in a "Klingon Empire meets Indiana Jones" kinda way.
The Way of the Warrior (Season 4, Episode 1 & 2) - See how Worf gets to DS9 and why Feds vs Klingons is a fine thing in the game.
Last edited by DS-00-0, FSD; 01/23/2014 at 15:58..
That last one should be Season 4, not Season 1. Otherwise glad to see someone else get onboard the DS9 train. To this day it is still my favorite Star Trek series.
My favorite as well. I've been rewatching it via Netflix, very slowly, an episode every couple months (my wife isn't interested, so I just have to squeeze it in when I have a spare hour to myself). Loved it and still do. I even read a couple of the post-series EU books recently (stories are fine but generally amateurish writing).
I was like you with Voyager, though. I gave up on it after the first couple seasons and never watched the rest. I wonder if getting the ship will make me want to go back and rewatch and finish it? Between AW and Star Trek Online I've been in a Trek mood lately.
The Dominion war story was excellent. My problem with DS9 is that in a given season there would be more throwaway episodes than storyline episodes. That and the fact that nothing of consequence ever happens to the DS9 crew (Though this could be said about any star trek show, it is more detrimental during such a devastating war.)
The Dominion war story was excellent. My problem with DS9 is that in a given season there would be more throwaway episodes than storyline episodes. That and the fact that nothing of consequence ever happens to the DS9 crew (Though this could be said about any star trek show, it is more detrimental during such a devastating war.)
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Except Jadzia dying, Nog losing his Leg, Garak losing his Father, Odo suffering from the changeling disease, and O'Brien getting captured and tortured.
My favorite as well. I've been rewatching it via Netflix, very slowly, an episode every couple months (my wife isn't interested, so I just have to squeeze it in when I have a spare hour to myself). Loved it and still do. I even read a couple of the post-series EU books recently (stories are fine but generally amateurish writing).
I was like you with Voyager, though. I gave up on it after the first couple seasons and never watched the rest. I wonder if getting the ship will make me want to go back and rewatch and finish it? Between AW and Star Trek Online I've been in a Trek mood lately.
I personally found that Voyager got more tolerable right around the time that Kess left and Seven joined the crew. Its also, of course, where the Borg started to play a part in the story. And we all know how irresistible the Borg are!
The Dominion war story was excellent. My problem with DS9 is that in a given season there would be more throwaway episodes than storyline episodes. That and the fact that nothing of consequence ever happens to the DS9 crew (Though this could be said about any star trek show, it is more detrimental during such a devastating war.)
I wouldn't say that. Nog developed a lot, and lost a leg. Jadzia died. Odo ended up leaving everything behind to rejoin his people. Sisko became a god(ish). Cardassia Prime was nearly destroyed and Garak left DS9 to help the rebuilding. Bajor actually reached out to help their former oppressors.
Except Jadzia dying, Nog losing his Leg, Garak losing his Father, Odo suffering from the changeling disease, and O'Brien getting captured and tortured.
But yeah, you're right
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Jadzia only kinda died. Nog lost his leg but he should have died several times. Garak kinda hated his father. Odo got better really quick. O'Brien, however, had everything bad that could possibly happen to a person happen to him, several times. He should have mental scars that all the psychiatry in the world couldn't cure, lol.
The Dominion war story was excellent. My problem with DS9 is that in a given season there would be more throwaway episodes than storyline episodes. That and the fact that nothing of consequence ever happens to the DS9 crew (Though this could be said about any star trek show, it is more detrimental during such a devastating war.)
Yeah, there are quite a few fluff episodes. If one of the usual 2 plot lines per episode does not look to be about the forward progress of the war, I move on. Been able to skip all of the Mirror Universe episodes, time travel episodes and what have you (though I'll likely go back and watch all the mirror episodes in one batch after I'm done with season 7).
Generally, I'd agree abiout character progression but I felt that Dax was the exception in DS9. She and Bashir seemed like a lock as a couple in the first few seasons but then things develop from there. I'm still interested to see how season 7 deals with this (for better or worse).
I also think Nog's character has developed quite well from just being "Jake's side-kick".
On a side note, I think this is something damning about American TV series though. My wife has gotten me into watching British shows and I'll be damned if they don't just rush forward ALL THE TIME!!! Take out all of the fluff episodes of DS9 and you'd have 10 episodes per season which is about what we see now with British TV series.
Yeah, there are quite a few fluff episodes. If one of the usual 2 plot lines per episode does not look to be about the forward progress of the war, I move on. Been able to skip all of the Mirror Universe episodes, time travel episodes and what have you (though I'll likely go back and watch all the mirror episodes in one batch after I'm done with season 7).
Generally, I'd agree abiout character progression but I felt that Dax was the exception in DS9. She and Bashir seemed like a lock as a couple in the first few seasons but then things develop from there. I'm still interested to see how season 7 deals with this (for better or worse).
I also think Nog's character has developed quite well from just being "Jake's side-kick".
On a side note, I think this is something damning about American TV series though. My wife has gotten me into watching British shows and I'll be damned if they don't just rush forward ALL THE TIME!!! Take out all of the fluff episodes of DS9 and you'd have 10 episodes per season which is about what we see now with British TV series.
There was certainly a lot of character development, however many times I never felt the war was all that important to anyone. Thats why two of the best crews in the federation could take 2 weeks off to learn how to play baseball.
I think it's also just a difference between attitudes towards tv in the 90's/early 00's and today. A lot of successful American dramas have also dropped the filler/fluff episodes, and typically run in seasons of ~10 episodes that all drive the story forward.
Not much of consequence happens to the DS9 crew during the series, that's kinda par for the course in Star Trek, but there are some pretty significant, life-altering events for many of the crew members at the resolution of the war. Also, although the main cast of the show aren't being killed off willy-nilly, the episodes that focus on the Dominion War do generally make a good point of highlighting how devastating the war is to the Alpha Quadrant, even if through the use of redshirt type characters or the psychological impact (rather than physical harm) on main characters.
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Quote : Originally Posted by CrimsonDynamo
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Jadzia only kinda died. Nog lost his leg but he should have died several times. Garak kinda hated his father. Odo got better really quick. O'Brien, however, had everything bad that could possibly happen to a person happen to him, several times. He should have mental scars that all the psychiatry in the world couldn't cure, lol.
Jadzia died, even if the Dax symbiont, and her memories, didn't. While the show did explore this a bit with the new Dax (name escapes me at the moment), particularly with regards to her relationship to Worf, it also ultimately makes it pretty clear that she's not the same person, even if she carries some of Jadzia's memories and feelings.
Garak and Odo were interesting, because their motivations and allegiance weren't so clear cut all the time. While that might not count as something significant happening to them during the course of the war, it also makes them much more interesting than the majority of Mary Sue starfleet officers, who are very predictable in their morality and stance at any given point.
OP3 - The Siege of AR-558 (Season 7, Episode 8)
War is Hell. This is an amazing episode that has so little space combat but is crazy-good in depicting how ground-war impacts the Federation which is normally a peaceful faction.
The concept of ground war in the Trek universe terrifies me, because of the technology levels involved. They didn't do that much in DS9, they definitely toned it down, but it really should just be constant horror. If sensors can lock on to you, they could easily just beam entire squads of troops into nothingness. You don't even have to beam them into space or off the edge of a cliff, just let them dissipate in the transporter stream. There are weapons - simple hand phasers! - that can disintegrate a person without much trouble. And I have to imagine there are, I dunno, photon mortars and stuff like that for area-effect annihilation. The average Trek soldier will be lucky if there's a trace DNA fragment to send back to his or her mother.
The concept of ground war in the Trek universe terrifies me, because of the technology levels involved. They didn't do that much in DS9, they definitely toned it down, but it really should just be constant horror. If sensors can lock on to you, they could easily just beam entire squads of troops into nothingness. You don't even have to beam them into space or off the edge of a cliff, just let them dissipate in the transporter stream. There are weapons - simple hand phasers! - that can disintegrate a person without much trouble. And I have to imagine there are, I dunno, photon mortars and stuff like that for area-effect annihilation. The average Trek soldier will be lucky if there's a trace DNA fragment to send back to his or her mother.
All that is true but it seems a good old hand to hand brawl would be what the Klingons and Jem Hadar are best at. What always bothered me was that the Borg never used ranged weapons, or knock out gas or simply beam the atmosphere out of a room and THEN go assimilating at will without the risk of being hacked to pieces by a Bat'Leth or torn apart by an android with some very recent anger management issues. You would think they would adapt some better tactical protocols. Especially after assimilating someone who could have written a book titled "How to take down a Borg ship for dummies".
Deep Space Nine is certainly the show to watch for Attack Wing inspiration. It's the only Trek that really had fleet battles. It's also where the game's name comes from. Both sides in the war used "attack wing" as a term a smaller grouping of ships within a fleet. I just wish running a galaxy wing was a more viable option in the game.
Quote : Originally Posted by DS-00-0, FSD
On a side note, I think this is something damning about American TV series though. My wife has gotten me into watching British shows and I'll be damned if they don't just rush forward ALL THE TIME!!! Take out all of the fluff episodes of DS9 and you'd have 10 episodes per season which is about what we see now with British TV series.
I think it's important to bear in mind that DS9 was originally conceived as an episodic series like the other Treks. If you removed all the "fluff" you might only have 10 or so episodes left from the whole first half of the series.
Even when the Dominion War started, there was disagreement among the writers about how much the show should transition into being a war story. Rick Berman wanted the war to be over in just a few episodes.
Quote : Originally Posted by flakbait
The concept of ground war in the Trek universe terrifies me, because of the technology levels involved. They didn't do that much in DS9, they definitely toned it down, but it really should just be constant horror.
Yeah, they never seem to utilize the full power of their weapons in fire fights. They talk about phasers on higher settings being able to demolish buildings, and show them vaporizing people. Yet whatever object the enemy has taken cover behind is always treated like an impenetrable barrier. The wide beam settings never seem to get used in combat either.
I suppose it's because the writers wanted to show something that was sufficiently similar to real world wars. If they were really using their tech logically, they wouldn't have living front line soldiers at all. They'd use some kind of mass produced combat drones whenever possible. Like the ones the Son'a had in Insurrection.
Quote : Originally Posted by Dr. Z
What always bothered me was that the Borg never used ranged weapons, or knock out gas or simply beam the atmosphere out of a room and THEN go assimilating at will without the risk of being hacked to pieces by a Bat'Leth or torn apart by an android with some very recent anger management issues.
Better yet, beam people directly into restraints for assimilation.
The Dominion war story was excellent. My problem with DS9 is that in a given season there would be more throwaway episodes than storyline episodes. That and the fact that nothing of consequence ever happens to the DS9 crew (Though this could be said about any star trek show, it is more detrimental during such a devastating war.)
You have to remember though that the original Star Trek only became popular after networks found out how well it lended itself to re-runs. TNG was originally developed as one of the first shows to be deliberately designed for syndication, which meant that they had to make it where you could pick up and watch most of the show from any episode and not feel lost. Jump ahead only a few years, and DS9 hits the stage. It kind of defied shows at the time by having a huge overarching plot that just escalated season to season. There were plenty of others, but that was one of the things that made DS9 unique, especially to other Trek shows. Voyager had character development, but no plotlines in that scope, and Enterprise usually dropped major plots after a season.
Quote : Originally Posted by Ted_Kord
I think it's also just a difference between attitudes towards tv in the 90's/early 00's and today. A lot of successful American dramas have also dropped the filler/fluff episodes, and typically run in seasons of ~10 episodes that all drive the story forward.
Not much of consequence happens to the DS9 crew during the series, that's kinda par for the course in Star Trek, but there are some pretty significant, life-altering events for many of the crew members at the resolution of the war. Also, although the main cast of the show aren't being killed off willy-nilly, the episodes that focus on the Dominion War do generally make a good point of highlighting how devastating the war is to the Alpha Quadrant, even if through the use of redshirt type characters or the psychological impact (rather than physical harm) on main characters.
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Jadzia died, even if the Dax symbiont, and her memories, didn't. While the show did explore this a bit with the new Dax (name escapes me at the moment), particularly with regards to her relationship to Worf, it also ultimately makes it pretty clear that she's not the same person, even if she carries some of Jadzia's memories and feelings.
Garak and Odo were interesting, because their motivations and allegiance weren't so clear cut all the time. While that might not count as something significant happening to them during the course of the war, it also makes them much more interesting than the majority of Mary Sue starfleet officers, who are very predictable in their morality and stance at any given point.
I would say there's a pretty fair amount of development in DS9. Nog is a great example because he goes from that bad influence you don't want your kids around to a pretty amazing crewman. A lot of people have mentioned him losing his leg, but I think the turning point for me was in Heart of Stone in the scene where he finally explains his motives to Sisko.
You also have change in Odo as he learns to relax and express himself, Worf as he has very realistic life changes (not to mention his very realistic relationship issues with Dax), though one of my favorites is Bashir, who goes from a very cocksure guy who sort of rubs his friends the wrong way, to an earnest and charming individual. I also like how his relationship with O'Brien changes from dislike to mutual respect to them playing with little figures together on an oversized Alamo map (a very nice image when I'm playing with little figures of their ships on a DS9 map).
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
As for Dax, I don't know if it was so clear that Jadzia was just reduced to memories after her death. It felt more ambiguous than that, sort of like different Doctor Who regenerations. Ezri immediately had a familiarity with Sisko, and it wasn't just information about him, but their old social dynamic. She struggled the whole season with feelings and thoughts that weren't hers, and she had to put herself on equal footing with powerhouse personalities like Jadzia or Curzan, despite being a very recessive person herself. She gave a very refreshing view of the corruption in the Klingon Empire after Jadzia, who was basically the biggest Klingon fangirl in the series. We also saw plenty of Curzan showing up and possessing changelings in previous seasons. It could just be memory, but it felt more ambiguous than that for me. The only real problem I had with Ezri though was that the Trill were supposed to be very very against re-associating with previous hosts' friends, and that never really came up.
Quote : Originally Posted by DrLunar
Deep Space Nine is certainly the show to watch for Attack Wing inspiration. It's the only Trek that really had fleet battles. It's also where the game's name comes from. Both sides in the war used "attack wing" as a term a smaller grouping of ships within a fleet. I just wish running a galaxy wing was a more viable option in the game.
I think it's important to bear in mind that DS9 was originally conceived as an episodic series like the other Treks. If you removed all the "fluff" you might only have 10 or so episodes left from the whole first half of the series.
Even when the Dominion War started, there was disagreement among the writers about how much the show should transition into being a war story. Rick Berman wanted the war to be over in just a few episodes.
Yeah, they never seem to utilize the full power of their weapons in fire fights. They talk about phasers on higher settings being able to demolish buildings, and show them vaporizing people. Yet whatever object the enemy has taken cover behind is always treated like an impenetrable barrier. The wide beam settings never seem to get used in combat either.
I suppose it's because the writers wanted to show something that was sufficiently similar to real world wars. If they were really using their tech logically, they wouldn't have living front line soldiers at all. They'd use some kind of mass produced combat drones whenever possible. Like the ones the Son'a had in Insurrection.
Better yet, beam people directly into restraints for assimilation.
Actually, knowing that Berman didn't like the war makes me feel better somehow....
Seriously though. We see a 23rd century phaser blow a whole in the side of a cave in the pilot, and then they have problems with bulkheads and barrels. And when I saw Tuvok use a wide-beam stun setting, I called bull####. I didn't even really like the idea of phase rifles, because regular phasers seemed good enough. Then, in, I think, Return to Grace, Kira mentions target locks and things, and I'm wondering how do they miss if their guns have a built in target lock. This doesn't even count purple laser bazookas....