I'm curious about how it works when someone forgets to use an ability in a tournament. For instance, let's say I make an attack on an opposing character with shape change. I announce "I will attack X." I wait a few seconds, pick up the dice, roll an 11 and then hit the opponent. Since Shape Change is a "may" ability, did the person just miss their chance? Am I obligated to remind them when I announce an attack?

I come from a background of Magic, where there are "may" triggers that can be missed, and mandatory triggers that can't. If both players miss a mandatory trigger, then they are both penalized for not maintaining the game state. So, are there such things as mandatory "triggers" in heroclix, and what are the repercussions for missing them?

Also, at what point does the other person "miss" the trigger? If I announce an attack, pick up the dice, and start shaking them around in my hand, did they miss their opportunity to shape change? How does this also relate to other abilities? For instance, let's say I'm using Silver Centurion and he gets hit with a pulse wave. I start clicking him for the damage, when I realize that he ignores pulse wave damage. Do I then put him back on his original click, or did I "forget" that trigger and take damage. Same thing with super senses. Also, let's say I make an attack, I hit, and they pick up their character and begin clicking it. They stop half way through and say "actually, I'm going to prob control that attack." Is it too late for them to do that?

This is mostly an issue because I have a lot of newer players at my game store who frequently forget things like shape change or super senses. I'm not trying to cheat anyone out of wins by being a dick and trying to get advantages off them forgetting abilities, but at the end of the day I'm paying money to try and win LE prizes, which usually operates outside the realm of "takesie backsies."

They had a rule at Origins: the "don't be a dink" rule. I am a firm believer that if you forgot something just after it happened, you should be able to go back and apply that game effect. But if you remember a few turns later, you're the friendly neighborhood 'realmser named SOL.

It is the responsibility of both players to ensure that the game state is following all of the rules.

"May" effects can be a grey area in this regard. Different judges are going to rule it differently.

Here is the wording of SC: "SHAPE CHANGE When this character is chosen as the target of an attack, you may roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, the attacker can’t target this character with an attack this turn and the attacker may choose another target character instead. The attacker then makes the attack unless there are no targets, in which case the action resolves without an attack."

With this wording, the argument is whether or not there is a default choice here. IE, is it a case where no roll is going to happen but it can happen if the player actively chooses to do so, or is it a case where you you have to choose to roll or not to roll? That is the question.

My personal view is that there is no roll by default during an attack, so with this wording the player must therefore choose to roll.

I know that nbperp disagreed with my take on this.


Note: Off the top of my head I don't have a specific example of a case where the wording would lead me to say that there is no default and therefore the choice must be declared one way or the other, but I know they are there.
This is another area where there is no concrete way to handle things. Many questions that arise will be solved differently by different judges.
For example, if the attack roll was made before the SC was caught, does the attacker reroll the attack? Some judges would say yes, some no.

Technically speaking, you can't turn back the clock. For me, this applies to everything, even an honest mistake like forgetting a SC roll. If the players decide to go back and roll, they've deviated from the rules already, so I'll leave it up to them to decide if the attack is rerolled, too. (Think of it like asking for official WK clarification on what a venue's house rule means. Since it's already operating outside of the official structure of the rules, then there's no feasible way to get an official WK ruling on it.)


I could go on about this whole thing and have many times in the past.
The bottom line of it all is that the best policy is to always keep the communication flowing.
If you declare an attack and know the target has Shape Change, then just point it out. It saves a lot of trouble later, and win or lose nobody can come back and say you weren't playing fairly.
At the very least, do not just give your opponent time to respond and then roll. Actually communicate about it. "I'm attacking your Mystique. Do you have any response?" Again, you leave no questions on things like whether or not enough time to respond was actually given.


I'm not a fan of the "don't be a dink" rule as an actual rule. It is far too flexible, and there are plenty of ways to abuse it.

I like this. If I want to win, then I don't want to win because I took advantage of my opponent blanking on a rule for a second. That's not good sportsmanship. So I say things like, "I want to attack your Super-Skrull". Words like that notify my opponent that there might be a reason I don't get to roll the dice, and it makes them think.

After all, what kind of bragging rights do I deserve if the after-game story ends with, "...and he never remembered to use his Leadership or heal his Wolverine!"

The Poison power is kind of a gray area. If you want to deal damage to me, you should at least remember the powers you've got that can do that.

Now on the other hand, if my opponent has had his face 1/2" from his smartphone the whole time, then I might say things like "Your turn. You have two characters who survived my turn that just finished."

There is actually no gray here. Everything is black...and black.

Poison (as well as the aforementioned Leadership) requires that the figure is given an action to use the power. It is not an effect that always happens. Mystics is a great example of something that always triggers.

Electronic devices are disallowed when following the Comprehensive Tournament Rules.

In a high-stakes game, I'd like to think that both players are paying enough attention to the game that something like that wouldn't slip by.

In a normal or low-intensity game, I'd let the SC roll be made after the attack if it was forgotten.

Powers like Leadership and poison are a choice that require a specific action at a specific time. If you don't give that action at the appropriate time, then you lost the use of that effect for that turn.

Shape Change is NON-optional, meaning, if I know I'm attacking a fig with SC, how do I know I can target that fig if you don't make the choice of rolling the die?

I think there should be a new Golden Rule: Never make an assumption.
If you have to assume your opponent is going to make a choice then ask what that choice is.

Also, powers like ES/D, CR, are not a choice your opponent has to make, these modifiers are always there. And damage reducers are NON-optional. If you knowingly let your opponent take damage without reducing/ignoring damage, then your are cheating.

I mean gray as in my mixed feelings about reminding my opponent that he has that power. Shape Change, Skrull TA and his Plasticity stopping my flyers I will take the time to mention. Things that are technically optional but always a good idea like Leadership and Poison are powers I might decide to let my opponent remember that on his own.

The gray area is made up of different opinions. To what lengths you or I will go to be good sportsmen. For me it's letting my opponent know about all his defensive options. If he forgets his offensive options, then sometimes I'll politely cough, or sometimes I'll let him skip his "beginning of turn" free actions if he neglects them. If he is a young player, then I will point out all his characters' cool powers, even if it helps him to win.

That's definitely true.

It is not as clear as what you are saying.
No power is optional anymore.
With Shape Change and others, however, you have the inclusion of the word "may" which adds some optionality to it.
In this specific case, what does that "may" let you do. It gives you the option of rolling a d6.
You may roll a d6.
The ambiguity lies in whether or not a player has to actively declare it one way or another.
To me the power reads that you can exercise the ability to roll this d6, not that you have to choose which your are doing, rolling or not rolling.
It is a very subtle difference, but that's how I see it.
By default your opponent is not normally making any kind d6 roll when the attack is declared. To me, therefore, the default is clearly that no roll is going to be made. Shape Change then gives the player the option to make a roll in lieu of the normal procedure.

Again, the whole environment would be much better if everyone just communicated for every aspect, but that unfortunately isn't going to happen.

In this situation you have a rule which is open to interpretation. Each judge must decide how to handle the situation.



That is cheating.

Skrull is Shape Change, so those are a wash. The optionality of Shape Change is the point of debate at the moment.

Plasticity, though, is a definite. If a player knowingly moves past a guy with Plasticity without stopping, then he would be cheating.

And I don't disagree with any of that.

I don't think this is the case. Here is part of a ruling on the official rules forum: "Another option is if the effect states 'may' which allows you to choose not to use the effect."

Here is the wording for Shape Change:
When this character is chosen as the target of an attack, you may roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, the attacker can’t target this character with an attack this turn and the attacker may choose another target character instead. The attacker then makes the attack unless there are no targets, in which case the action resolves without an attack.

Based on those two things, Shape Change is very much optional.

Thankfully I play at a fellowship only venue so we don't have to put up with this kinda dinkishness.

However when we do play competitive (like the WOL tournaments) we would never "forget" to remind our opponent of shape change cause we are involved in that action and we are trying to do things right. On the other hand leadership and poison are the responsibility of our opponent to use them, if they forget to use them that is not our fault.

Is the player new? Playing sealed with figures he really doesn't know well, and doesn't have the experience I do? I will help them out. Like bill4935 says, sometimes to the detriment of my own team.

...But if you are that guy I have seen walk over new players, borderline cheat? You need to remember everything.

I posted my take on this about a month ago and i let player sin my area know that from now on when you play me once you click your dial there is no taking something back. I do my best to remind my opponent that they have whatever power, but if something slips through the cracks and you forgot about a power that is ultimately your fault. But if no dice have been rolled and no pieces have been clicked then feel free to do what you need to do. If you move a piece and realize you want him one square back, no problem, if you go to running shot, then realize the defense of the target is too high and want to move your PC'er before attacking, go ahead, i don't mind if you forget leadership and want to roll it after an action, but if you take a click of poison from me and then realize you had toughness from a resource - too bad you already clicked your dial. I tell people to hold me to the same standard and i tell people ahead of time so they aren't surprised by it mid-game.

I was not trying to imply that any powers are optional. Just that some powers require an action to activate while some trigger "when...", and others like Earthbound/Neutralized just are.
Some powers, when triggered, grant an option like SC and BCF. In the case of SC, it is triggered once the fig is chosen as a target. This is NOT optional. The option is whether or not to roll. I think this a choice that needs to be made. So how do you as the attacker know if I want to roll? you can either ask me or you can assume. I think assuming is poor and sloppy game play (that's like not calling your shots in billiards). Because I will always assume in my favor while you will most likely assume in your own favor. I say If someone other than you have a choice to be made, then ask for it to be made.