Has this been discussed before? This:

FASTER THAN THOUGHT: Takion can use Hypersonic Speed and Pulse Wave. When he uses Hypersonic Speed he can use Pulse Wave instead of a ranged combat attack.

Does he get his range halved twice so he has two range, or just once? Why just once? Because Pulse wave is a Ranged Combat ACTION and HSS states you halve range only on Range Combat ATTACKS. And Actions are not Attacks.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499522

The general concensus was that yes, he would halve his range from HSS, then PW would use half of the new value.

Ranged combat actions result in a ranged combat attack. His range value gets replaced twice over the course of "Faster Than Thought."

This is correct. It is halved twice down to a 2. Just remember with Modifiers you could get his range to a 5. Replace then modify is a wonderful thing

You can?

If he starts with 7 and you perplex him 3 times then you replace and modify for HSS so (7/2)+3 = 6.5 which is rounded up to 7. Then you use the area of effect which is NOT a replacement and use Half of 7. Which ends up at 4. How are you getting to 5? Sniper Rifle or something?

th3f00t is correct. You are mistaken. Area of Effect is not a replacement value. So although it's similar the end result is usually different. See my example math above.

Dragon isn't wrong again is he?

Wasn't this the whole reason that Batarang failed to win at Worlds and should be etched into everyone's subconscious by now.

No I just had a brain fart with my math. The Sniper Rifle doesn't do you any good on Takion if you use this power. Then you get 10/2=5+3=8/2=4. It is the same as his base of 7/2=3.5+3=6.5=7/2=3.5=4. Due to the rounding up in Heroclix his 7 Range base is actually the same as a 10 Range base for the purposes of this power only....

No that is not why Batarang lost at Worlds. He lost due to Perplex and Pulse Wave. Even though the Perplexer was outside the Area of Effect of Pulse Wave it was ruled that the use of Perplex would be ignored for the duration of Pulse Wave.

Batarang did not use the Sniper Rifle or any modifiers to Takions Range if I remember correctly.


Also, where the hell have you been man? We need you around here to keep me honest

At the risk of muddying the waters, I would like to share another way of reading this power a friend shared with me, which makes just as much sense:

FASTER THAN THOUGHT: Takion can use Hypersonic Speed and Pulse Wave. When he uses Hypersonic Speed he can use Pulse Wave instead of a ranged combat attack.

Whatif? When Takion uses PW during HSS, the replace then modify of HSS is itself ignored.
His power reads "he can use Pulse Wave instead of a ranged combat attack."

So, ignoring the text is HSS's PAC entry regarding ranged attacks, and just following the PAC entry for PW, results in a natural range of 4 for Takion.

I got mad at him for making such a logical assumption!

So even though the thread I started months ago has led to most folks playing Takion with 2 calculations on his range, I see the argument for just one.

Unless the WES guys say otherwise (i dont ask them jack) Im playing it with the replace then modify followed by half of range.

Anybody got an official ruling?

Technically that would be:
7/2=3.5 -> 4+3=7/2=3.5 -> 4

You rounded a little late....same result, though.

There is one replace then modify and one, for a lack of a better word, calculation

Area of effect, not being a combat value, is not subject to normal replacement rules

His range is halved for HSS (replaced) then altered for any appropriate modifiers. The result of this is halved for the area of effect

So Takion's Sniper Rifle (if you use the proper spelling, tachyon. it sounds like a cool science book, doesn't it?) with its range modified by +3 would be 10 divided by 2, adding 3 then dividing that by 2 for AoE for 4. His base value, with same modifiers, would be 7 divided by 2, adding 3 then dividing that by 2 for AoE for 4 again

Which is what caused my brain fart to begin with

Be nice to me, I haven't had a second cup of coffee yet!

The power would have to specifically tell you that, for it to work like that.

When ever a special power or trait modifies how a power works, it only modifies (should I be saying change to not muddy the waters?) as specified in the power description. Since it does not tell you that you skip the halving of range for the ranged combat attack which is activating Pulse Wave, then you in fact must halve that range value.

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