Over in an ongoing game thread, I posted the following.This ended up sparking a discussion on mafia win conditions on the realms. Many games here often differ from the standard rules in that you have to be alive to win. I felt this discussion deserves it's own thread, that anyone can post in, as I have increasingly seen differing opinions on it.

What do you view as winning? Are you in favor of the Realms almost universal but never stated 'house rule'? What do you view the advantages to be?

Of course, everyone is a winner if they had fun, but I think this will be an interesting discussion.

Transplanting posts from the vanilla game. I edited out parts about that game specifically and not this discussion.

Transplanting relevant posts from chit-chat.

Anyway, I love discussions like these about mechanics.

I also love discussing mechanics! However, since I am modding an ongoing game, I think I should hold off until it's done.

I'm kind of looking forward to it ending though, simply because I want opinions on some of my stuff.

From the other thread:

Man, I have definitely caught the bug again. I'm starting to want to run a game.

Arrowverse, perhaps?

Anyone who plays an individual game in mafia and you are NOT the SKer/BHer with a single win condition is going to lose.

Mafia is a team effort - whether you are part of the mafia or town.

The only single game you should ever play is if you are the SKer, BHer, neutral with an odd win condition.

That's just me.

Well I think that goes without saying. And can easily carry over to ones sense of accomplishment in their factions victory.

But should they be credited with a victory they did not personally achieve?

Personally, I don't know that it matters to me. I enjoy playing well. I remember some notable almost victories that didn't net me a victory, or didn't net my faction a victory, and I can't say that it impacts my perception of my teamwork.

Ultimately, I don't see the distinction unless one is not only tracking victories but also comparing victories.

The difference is if a player is playing to personally win rather than their team win, they may be more passive than they otherwise would be, as they do not want to draw attention to themselves. This hurts the team overall (Town especially), because the strength of the town lies in the day. If you aren't talking, you aren't helping anyone.

Have you ever noticed in games on the realms that people wait for info gatherer's and never take the initiative with a passive role? This not only hurts the info gatherers, but makes the town paralyzed if the info gatherers should happen to die. This is bad. Town has power without them.

That's true, but I don't think that's related to the victory conditions. Or even to affiliation, really.

We have a lot of people who tend to play passively, regardless of faction. And we have others that play one faction differently than another.

I think more vanilla games--or conversations about vanilla play--would be an active solution of one were looking to change that. Changing a victory condition to instill incentive seems the passive approach.

Why does "credited for a victory" matter?

Honest question. Why is everyone concerned with the "number"?

For instance, I haven't "survived" a game since...well, since I was mafia and got everyone to lynch a cop.

Does that make me a bad player?

Yes. I mean, you can't really blame the meta. After all, you died pretty quick in Anonymous too.

I was more insulted that anyone thought that THAT could be possibly be me.

My game play is so much more sophisticated than that.

I don't think it does matter. I just don't see why the victory condition is relevant unless that credit does matter.

I keep track of mafia wins just like I do my heroclix wins.

Meaning I don't because I play for fun and do not care how it ends for me, as long as all sides had a fair and good game. The win conditions matter for bragging rights if one wants and to differentiate one side from another in the game. Just my two cents.