So, our next film, Classic or Crud, Hit or Miss, what say you ALL?

Our next film open for discussion, and ultimately an Overall RATING by you all, is:


Let the discussions flow. Likes, dislikes, classic film or overhyped trash, and DONT FORGET to place an Overall Rating when youre done.

Its easy, just give a Rating from 1 (Jaws 4:The Revenge) to 10 (Jaws), and thats it. Course I'd love to have you all give reasons as to why you feel it deserves this Overall Rating, and more than encourage discussions with us all about them.

ALSO: I urge Any and All of you who have yet to do so, to go back to our older catalogue of RtM films (Very easily done by the Links List right on the top of the Rate The Movies Forum), and vote for your favorite, not so favorite, and anything in between movies. We have HEAPS there already, some Classics, some Crud, let's hear what YOU think about them ALL!

So, what say you all?

Next Film: ??????

I went into this movie thinking it was going to be a complete dud. The reviews said it was bad and most people I knew who had seen it said it was bad. Im going to give it a 9/10.

This to me is one of the better superhero movies out there. For all the hate it receives it perplex me. The movie is well paced, exciting, and action packed. Both batman and superman are well set up characters and their motivations are quiet complex.

The scene that really makes the movie for me is the one in the capital when they bring Superman in to answer questions. The senator finds the glass of "granny's peach tea" on her desk before the questioning begins. This is a great scene and shows how much depth and foresight the movie provides.

I have a few issues with the movie, but I liked it.

The pacing in the first hour or so is slow. Lex needed to be fleshed out more because it's hard to recognize who he is, why he is the way he is, and what his beef is with Superman. Snyder lied about the Batman/Superman fight, and I think at this point the whole movie watching world has seen the Waynes get killed enough times since 1989, that we no longer need it rehashed in nearly every movie that involves Batman.

Fight scenes were epic, as they should be, and very well done. I think that Henry Cavill looked more comfortable in the role of Superman in MoS, but was a better Clark in this movie. Ben Affleck did a great job. Gal Gadot was fantastic, but just needed more screen time. Jeremy Irons did well, but I'm not convinced he's a good Alfred. Lex was not as bad as he was made out to be.

Other than that, it's a good movie overall. I give it a 7/10.

6 out of 10.
Not as bad as the critics would have you believe but nowhere near the greatness the fanboys have deluded themselves in to hoping/believing it could be.

Pro's
Wonder Woman's name may be missing from the title but she totally stole the show & if nothing else, I'm totally psyched for her first solo

The actual batman/superman fight kinda played out exactly as I imagined/hoped.

The batman/thug battle as seen in the last trailer was pretty awesome, very Arkham knight game series.

I kinda liked old pessimistic, drinking on the job Alfred.

Aquaman cameo was unintentionally funny, I know this should technically be a con,but I enjoy the cheese as far as my Aquaman is concerned, my favourite version of him is from the brave and the bold cartoon

Dream/vision sequence involving para demons, looked very cool, even if it was somewhat unnecessary foreshadowing

Cons... oh boy here goes.
The few one liners fell totally flat... I know I know, someone with a marvel avatar is saying it's not ha ha funny blah blah blah, but seriously the bleakness of it all was somewhat overwhelming, but the "I thought she was with you" line was accompanied by tumble weeds in the otherwise packed screening we were at.
There was another attempt at humour but it was so forgettable I've already forgotten it. The only s###### came unintentionally from the Aquaman cameo.

Wonder woman's over the top guitar music theme, when she joins the fray... luckily gal gaddot's formidable screen presence was enough to dull the obnoxiously cheeseness of it all.

Too many poorly thought out dream sequences/flashbacks. The opening scenes of little Bruce Wayne falling in to the (assumed) batcave, then floating back up and out of it was perhaps the worst offender here, and does a great job of setting the whole thing off on the wrong foot. Monster bat zombie Martha Wayne being a close second.

The general writing & editing was quite sloppy, so much so that the first half of the film was all over the place.

Doomsday
They cut and pasted both Bizzarro and Doomsday together, which to me means one less great supes bad guy going forward. On top of that, they made the (getting all too common) mistake of making him look like a lotr troll, seriously Hollywood, the lotr troll is not that great a design for a"big bad", works far better as a big minion. Also his cgi effects were a bit ropey.

Batman's grenade launcher... seriously, just no, a batch of gass grenade/pellets or cryptonite laced batarangs would have been far more fitting, and wouldn't have ruined that lovely trailer bait shot of the trinity standing together for the first time.

Lex Luther was terribad_ enough said. Hopefully they will bring in clancy brown as lex sr for the next one and all sins regarding Luther will instantly be forgiven

Finally, batman killing, I know I know dark knight returns and all that, but if you are going to be building a new cinematic universe wouldn't it be better to keep the characters more faithful to the main continuity versions rather than else world/alternate future versions?
he shoots people, crushes them with cars, crushes them under his own car etc etc but in a world where batman kills, why do we still have a Joker??? Especially given the nods to death in the family.
Now my friend had a good answer on this last point, that Joker may actually be a Robin gone bad, & if that pans out i think I'll have to take this negative point back

Meh.

As we were leaving the theater, a group of youths outside asked us what we thought about it and that was our response "meh". They replied with, "that's what the other people said too!"

It's not terrible, but it's not a good movie. The plot is unmotivated and overcomplicated. The first ninety minutes or so kind of meander in and out of various scenes and plots, but never is there any real sense of motivation or urgency. Scenes don't seem to fit together well. Not to mention a few extra plots tacked on for really no reason. I found myself asking "why?" a lot. This movie could have easily been under two hours, and would have been much better for it.

It's dark, both visually and tonally. This isn't a Batman who pulls punches, and a much more angry Superman than usual. There is pretty much zero levity (which isn't necessarily the same as humor), and when the funny bits do show up, they feel odd/awkward. The fight scenes get muddled as the CG characters and shadowy visuals all blend together into a sort of fast moving sludge. There were points where I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be feeling. Yes, it was fun to finally see the big two duke it out on the big screen, but there wasn't any weight behind it.

On that note, there are some great moments. The titular fight (although "who cares?" inducing) has some nice bits of comicy action. Gal Gadot plays a fantastic Wonder Woman (although, again, I was left asking why is she doing any of this?). I thought Affleck put up an interesting take on Wayne, and will be interested to see what he can do when he actually gets to have purpose in a Batman movie. Even Cavill felt more comfortable as the Man of Steel.

Unfortunately, Eisenberg's Luthor felt odd. I get what they were going for, the insane Zuckerberg, but it never felt right. Why in every film iteration of the character is Luthor portrayed as a flamboyant maniac? I've always seen Lex as someone who is cold and calculating, with delusions of grandeur, but loses his cool under pressure. For one, I kind of agreed with Luthor at the start of the movie, and then didn't understand why he went nuclear at the end. What did he serve to gain from doing what he did?

Like I said earlier, it's not terrible (nowhere near Fantastic Four territory) but it's not good either. I went in with low expectations and I think that helped.

4/10

I like Luthor in this. A boy king who comes to find all his power is meaningless, because a god is walking the earth, has all the motivation needed to focus everything on killing said god through all available means and manipulations.

WW steals her scenes almost entirely through casting.

Overall, I am anxious to see anyone else writing and directing in the DC shared universe.

This movie was fun for me though. 7/10

7/10 for general movies, 8/10 for Superhero movies (which tend to be underwhelming and/or very formula).

Things I thought I would hate, but didn't-- the tone, the color pallette, and Lex.

Things that were disappointing-- overly-violent Batman.

Things that were awesome-- the actual fight itself, Wonder Woman in and out of costume.

Best way to improve the movie-- take out most of the dream sequeneces/future teases and tighten up the first half.

I was surprised at how much I liked Lex, actually.

Overall for me, I thought BvS was an OK movie, it didnt suck, it wasnt great, it was overall a fairly average movie experience. I wish I would have liked this movie more, as Im a big movie fan and I really look forward to big movies like this, but while there were several cool parts in this film, there were also parts I found quite annoying, situations I felt didnt fit or opportunities that were quite wasted.

What I didnt like was as with MoS, the tone, the darkness, the grim, gritty world that the DCEU seems to have locked itself into. I think that world works great for Batman and Gotham, but Superman should be different than that, a nice yin and yang to Batman, opposites that fit perfectly together. When people literally die around him and Superman doesnt muster a single bit of emotion, then I just dont see that as a Superman way to act.

Lex Luthor I couldnt stand, thats not how I feel Lex should act, and am disppointed that they went this route for who is one of DCs best villains ever. Batmans lethal approach to dealing with opponents (as above with Superman) isnt a very Batman way to act, and to me goes against the character of Batman. The JLA showcases were pretty tacked on and dopey, and Doomsday was a pretty wasted opportunity for a truly Epic scene. And of course this doesnt mention the chopping editting with scenes bouncing back and forth here and there a bit too quickly (which is what happens when you try to jam in So Much Stuff into a single movie).

The good sides were Afflect does make a great Batman (even if he doesnt seem to have the appreciation for human life as I feel he should), Wonder Woman was quite cool and well done (even if shes only at the end), the actual Batman vs Superman fight was well done and pretty epic, and in the end it was just cool to see the Trinity all on screen together.

In the end it was an OK-ish movie, I wasnt as disappointed with this as I was MoS, but I was still disappointed that it wasnt a better made film, with a better story and that they continued to handle the DCEU in this overall manner.

Am I looking forward to further movies in this universe? Ehhhhh, kinda, I guess, sure?

Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice - 6.5 / 10

I'll give it 8/10. *SPOILERS*, but this is a movie review thread, so I'm guessing we've all seen it by now. It was very dark and violent, as in angry, brutal violent rather than just action movie violent. And it tended to be a little confusing with all the visions and dreams, but I liked that they were showing other things that just the directly relevant Bats and Supes stuff. I didn't fully understand that extra stuff, but to me that's ok because this movie is obviously only a few puzzle pieces of a larger picture.

In fairness, I get why people are turned off by it, and the un-Batman like violence, but that too made sense to me, given that we are shown a veteran, cynical Batman who hasn't actually pulled the gloves off, but who has removed a lot of the padding. We also know that a lot of bad stuff has happened in his life up to this point, so he makes sense to me. As a side note, this is also how it was understood by my friend who saw it with me, and he knows almost nothing of comic book characters, and has only very recently seen any of the Marvel movies (which he likes). He also liked this movie, and said that it was very thought provoking, and he could see how these guys would become dark and grim and cynical if they've lived in the world they live in.

I really liked the scene where Batman rescues Martha Kent. That was some good, hard core Batman stuff. Very hard core because he actually doesn't try to prevent bad guys from getting killed. Again, not gloves off, but not pulling punches, and we saw the bold and intelligently dangerous Batman we know from the comics. This scene really helped make this a better overall movie, and helped tie things together for me, because it showed us that this really is Batman, not more or less an angry Iron Man, which is what he seemed like for a lot of the movie.

Another side note: one reason I liked this scene is because it showed what I imagine would be the result of what a supremely capable, but righteously angry man would do. Very much like what we see in Captain America in the movies. He's not at all a murderer but he will not hold back when things need to get ugly, and "if these brutes and thugs get killed in the process, well, they brought it on themselves, moving on..."

Aquaman's scene was pretty good. It was simply a glimpse, and it showed him as powerful but mysterious, and left me actually wanting to see more. That's really saying something because I'm not at all an Aquaman fan.

The Flash scene was neat, and was also an intriguing glimpse. Only thing odd as that he looked different than TV Flash, and I was assuming he'd be the same person.

I didn't like the Cyborg scene, but that's probably because I just don't like the character. He's 100% uninteresting to me.

Lex was good as a villain, but I simply thought he was too much like the Joker. As for complaints about how he gained full access and control of the Kryptonian ship, I had no problem with that because, one, he requested and was granted full access from the powers-that-be, and two, it's a fantasy world where fantastic things happen... just go with it.

Previews or visions of Apokolips and all that comes with it were intriguing, if a bit confusing.

Doomsday was overall well done except for the LOTR troll look. That was simply a bad design choice right there.

Gal Gadot is lovely, and made a good Diana, and a good Wonder woman. Her battle scenes were satisfying, and made me want more, which is probably what they were going for, getting us excited to see her solo flick. It worked. I also liked the romantic tension and intrigue between her and Bruce. She helped make this a better movie.

Again, I get why people may not like this movie, but it mostly worked for me, and I'm looking forward to more DC cinematic universe.

3/10 Pretty bad but OK.

Too many Jump scares for a Superhero film

The "doomsday" birth/creation concept was meant for Bizarro and I really didn't like the "reuse" of the corpse. His design was awful.

Lex went from charming to "way too out there" so quickly he felt like different characters.

Batman wasn't just unstable he was clearly uncaring about collateral damage. I'm so sure he killed a good dozen thugs on accident that I'm just...disappointed. Afflek is only as good as his script and this script was mediocre to me.

What was up with Bruces prophetic dreams? I did not care for the sudden drops into his nightmares with no indication of a transition to "inside his head"

Wonder Woman was charming but I still don't understand her motives.

I hated what we saw of the Flash, his costume looked very dumb to me, way too much going on.

Speaking of too much going on, this movie tried to be far too many things and crammed too much stuff into it's folds. I know that I'm going to be called a Marvel Sheep by some people but...I just did NOT like any of the recent DC films. I love the DC tv shows but the movies have all been bad for one reason or another.

3.5/10

The film works in certain places and fails in others. Overall, it does the job of promoting the "core" of the DCEU Justice League, but leaves much to be desired.

If anything, see the film for Batman and WW.

I went in hopeful, but not really expecting anything. I came out of it happy, and wanting to see it again.

7.7 out of 10

My pros and cons are:

When he appeared, I leaned over to my wife and whispered, "It's a cave troll!"

Regarding one of your points:

Regarding these two points...