Does "and" mean "both" or does it mean "or"?

Specifically: Cyborg's SP states: Cyborg can use Energy Explosion and Penetrating/Psychic Blast.

Compare with: whose SP states: The Drummer can use either Outwit or Perplex.

I know that both EE and PPB are both activated by a RANGE action, so you wouldn't normally be able to use both.
BUT
pg 26 2017 Core Rulebook
under SPECIAL POWERS
Many special powers alter the way in which a standard
power works. They only alter the standard power by those
specifi ed effects, and all other parts of the standard power are unchanged.

What is specified effect does Cyborg have?
The ability to use either/or?
Or the ability to use both at the same time?

"And" means both. Under the new wordings, Cyborgs special power would read "Energy Explosion, Psychic Blast". He can use both, however, they are no longer able to be combined.

When a power says "Once per turn, can use either X or Y" it means if you use one, you're not able to use the other.

So he can use either/or.
If they can no longer be combined, that's "or" (at least in English, not sure about Clix-speak.)

Thank you for your quick reply.

Not necessarily. Functionally, "and" and "or" mean the same thing in this context. "Or" on its own doesn't limit the use of something. With powers like Drummer's, the "once per turn" is the important part.

There are plenty of special powers that say "can use X and Y", where X and Y are not able to be combined, or just have nothing to really do with each other. For example, Iceman has this defense power: That doesn't imply that he can somehow combine the effects of those two powers.

No, he can use both . "Can use" is a game term and I'm no English teacher but it seems fine. He can't combine them in an attack but he can still use both powers.

"And" in this construction also gives the character more flexibility in a situation where something (usually an external source), permits the figure to make more than one costed action in a turn.

I wanted to know if he could combine them.
Specifically, I asked if he could use both at the same time.

He can't.
Therefore, he can use one or the other but not both at the same time.

Thank you.

So the Drummer can use both powers in the same turn?

seriously?

He can eat apples or pears. That means he can eat one, not both.

there are countless threads on this topic on this website. "And" sometimes means "or". "Either A or B" has never meant "A and B".

No, since it says "once per turn" he has to pick one or the other to use.

Yeah, but that has nothing to do with the "and" here.

You are drawing a correct answer and applying the wrong the justification for how that answer was reached.

The other posters here are trying to teach you how to use the language in this game correctly so that you do not apply this faulty logic elsewhere and reach an incorrect answer.

Example:
"Shemp can use Exploit Weakness and Blades/Claws/Fangs."

What everyone here is trying to keep you from doing is looking at a power like that and saying "Oh, well, I learned from Cyborg that 'and' means that he can use them both but not at the same time, so Shemp obviously cannot use these together."

Saying that would be wrong because "and" does not mean what you are trying to force it to say. It means that he can use both powers, period. From there you have to know how powers and actions interact in order to determine on a case by case basis if there is compatibility.

...The key is to realize the ability to use a power does not change the activation requirements of that power.

Would you say Jefferson can use Charge, Incap, and EW on his the 4th Click. I know I would say he can use all 3 powers.



Also...
Even if some equipment in the future lets you activate two different RANGE actions with a single POWER action you will find that EE and PB both generate their own separate attack.

What Harpua said...

I'm not here to question the rules, they are what they are.

But in the defence of Oldlady, as an English student and an experienced player of Heroclix (but not a judge I may add), I see his/her point. The fault doesn't lie wholly with the player but the wording set out by Heroclix.

The powers are listed on a PAC and work as they are described, however, since we got SPs and Traits, we have combos, options & unique circumstances to contend with.
If you tell me to go the shop to buy an apple and a packet of zip ties, I will leave the shop with an apple and a packet of zip ties. They are both very different but I can have both at the same time, regardless of their compatibility.

If you say go to the shop and buy an apple or a packet of zip ties, I need to choose one and I can only leave with one or the other.

As a non-judge or playing as a casual, this is how some powers read.

When a power says I can use EE and Pen/Psy Blast, happy days and great news, my attack has the best of both worlds.
Should a similar power state or, it looks like I'm picking one power or the other for this attack.

Here's where we run into trouble. What about powers that simply can't combine? How do I use both in this instance? I'll check with a judge, dang, it's a home game... Uncertainty kicks in.

I've read through the thread and to reiterate, I agree with the ruling and reasoning, my point is to highlight the understanding from a casual players' perspective and why certain questions like the above are put forward.

With the new PAC and new rules wording, this should definitely help reduce these uncertainties. Now it is clearer that if Hero X can A and B, due both being RANGE: and the rules stating only one RANGE: action can be triggered.

So by English which is accurate about Jefferson's 4th Click?

A) He can use Charge, Incap, and Exploit Weakness

or

B) He can use Charge, Incap, or Exploit Weakness