Over on the Harley Quinn and the Gotham Girls evidence thread, there is quite a lively debate about which clix will be ID call-ins and why other people hate ID cards.

Carry on:

Gracias for the thread.

Personally I think anyone claiming they're worse/as bad as Resources/Team Bases is looking at the past with a bit of rose-colored glasses. And if we were still dealing with JL team bases or the book of the skull they'd be singing a different tune.

I'll be glad to see the end of ID cards personally, but only a small handful of them have been top tier, and arguably they're just exacerbating the effect of characters who would have been top tier in their own right.

I think that they bring homogeneity back to the game in a marked way. I don't think that they changed the game as significantly as Resources, but I think that they're the most ubiquitous, low-risk-yet-highly-potent elements since Resources (including Possessors, IMO).

As for Team Bases, absolutely nothing was worse than that era, IMO.

Well, they're not going anywhere any time soon. We're getting a bunch more in a couple months.

But yeah, people complaining about ID Cards are misinterpreting the issue. The problem is not inherently ID Cards and their mechanics, its the handful of overpowered figures that can be brought in for a single turn at the cost of 5pts. Hopefully they take steps to avoid that in the future. Getting rid of the real name option on the new ones is at least a step in the right direction, since it gives them more control of exactly who/what can be called in (in theory, at least).

Outside of a few meta figures, ID Cards themselves are not really a problem. And honestly, its arguable that those are actually even issues. We're talking about the top tier competitive meta at that point. There's always going to be certain things that are just the most efficient way to spend your points. If its not a couple ID Cards, it would be something else. And people would still be making the same complaints. If you're going to whine about the meta, don't play in high level competitive events.

In essence, using an ID Cards basically lets you sub-in a character of equal or lesser value for another for a turn, at the cost of 5pts. and a power action. That in and of itself is pretty balanced. Its unfortunate that there are a few figures that throw that balance out of whack for the top of the meta, but like I said, there's always something that's going to cause that.

Not to mention the Table/Teleporter are probably the most balanced Resource we've ever gotten.

Yes, the same handful of ID's see play at the highest levels of the game. Comparing that to the most egregious Resources is laughable. Yes, the meta was possibly more varied when it came to what figures got played with Gauntlets, Utility Belts, Book of Skulls, and Power Batteries. But that's because which figures you played mattered less than the Resources. It didn't really what you were giving Hammers or Constructs to. At least with ID Cards, you have to build your team to actually make use of them. Most Resources were essentially free, in regards to limiting how your team was built.

I'm also not going to argue the meta is fun, or interesting. Or even healthy. But that's really a totally separate issue. ID Cards are fine. Its the figures in the environment they need to work on balancing.

Id cards are not the problem.
The primes are the problems.
Unimind should be prime
Nick fury should be prime
Green arrow ew should be prime
Goblin king( before watch list) should be prime
Imagine the meta game now. It is funny and there are different teams for each player.

Since the removal of Ultron's ID cards have been great

I could not have said it better myself. I agree with all of these points.

Obviously the mechanics are going to be different with these new ID cards in the upcoming X-men set. Personally I would like it if instead of just going off of a character's name, there was only a certain figure or a few figures that work with that ID card. Most likely the ones from the same set. Kind of like how Donald Blake could alter ego into a few different Thors from the same set:

if they changed ID cards to be like the new mind control, then i'd be ok with them. wizkids didn't do them any favors in my eyes by letting a 30pt figure count as a 120pt one and call in fury. they KNEW that's what it was used for and still let it slide. horrible move IMO.

paying 5pts (which is nothing in the grand scope of the game) for a figure that can easily shift the game in one attack is just not right. it doesn't help the game progress, and craps over the strategy the game SHOULD be all about. i just hope and pray wizkids doesn't ever give us another figure like fury, GA , the atom, or hawkeye to call in. it's bad for the game overall.

I'm going to be more blunt than normal here: If one attack is enough to cost you the game, you deserve to lose.

The Ultron drones were a mistake... but that was a mistake with the drones, not the cards.

-J

Preface: I'm not defending this combination. It is (/was) abusive and definitely a pain in the ass to face. Especially if you're facing it weeks in a row.

However.

We've seen that there are obviously different design teams at play. And that sets are (more or less) designed to be internally balanced.

AoU was designed knowing there would be ID cards.

AoU was not necessarily (and I would say, probably not) designed knowing that one ID card would allow Balls of Fury to be called in. Because the AoU design team probably didn't even know that figure would exist (or what he would do).

Does it change what happened? Of course not. But it should reset some expectations for a rational person.

I love all those figures though and hope they continue releasing stuff like that.

Here's what I can say. Meta is meta, certain things outpower others. It works like that in any collectible game.

I honestly have no complaint on any of these or any game element really and I find them enjoyable. I can see the complaint people have with the meta, but then again it's the meta. It's high competitive play meant for people to exploit mechanics and break the game. My only issue I have with the competitive scene currently is the Uni-mind and point scoring thing. Other then that call ins are fine by me.

I can't see wizkids getting rid of ID cards unless they run out of characters to make with them. People want these cards in turn to use with figures they deem good to use and people want the figures that come out that will make great call ins. I assume this must drive sales of boosters.

Ex.

If someone had the Green Arrow ID card and didn't care about it till they Green Arrow Chase, they now want to get that chase to use and vice versa. Couldn't be that someone pulled the Chase and now want to go back amd buy older boosters to get the ID card.

All I can say is from a Judge standpoint, I teach more often than I have to give rulings. Since the dawn of the "sideline", it's been a hot mess for most of my players. Once I have a fresh player get familiar with the rules, they usually ask about all the additional crap that goes into META play. Once I explain how it works, or more often after they've faced a team with a full sideline, they're turned away from the game. I don't use them, but that's just me.


I will admit I do REALLY enjoy watching the secondary market, for it's truly a wonder. After 1 preview, a $3 card jumps to $50, with that previewed figure not releasing for another month.

Yeah that was inexcusable. Some events were simply banning Ultron or at least Ultron drones.

As for more ID cards, bring 'em on! I love them. Just don't make anymore infernal Nick Furys, and they won't be a problem.

see, i LOVE power in this game. what i don't love is power you don't pay for!! the problem this game has now is ppl want to pay less than 150pts for a figure that takes no skill to play and has an answer for almost everything in the game. that's not cool. and wizkids knows what they're doing.

ID cards could and should be fun, and cool. instead they've been reduced to 5 or so cards that get you an 'easy button' for 5pts a piece. i've seen games come down to 35 to 30. how is that a good or healthy meta?? and you CAN make a great meta without taking the strategy out of the game. things can and will still be collectible without insane powers.