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PULSE WAVE RANGE: Halve range, [improved targeting] . Other characters within range can’t use powers or abilities (for this action). Make a range attack targeting all characters, at least one of which must be opposing, within range and line of fireusing their printed defense values. If more than one character is targeted, each hit character is dealt 1 damage instead of normal damage.
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A character can’t target itself or a friendly character with
an attack unless the effect specifically says it can target a
“friendly character” or the attack targets “all characters.”
Besides the intent, is there any reason PW doesn't target the user with the attack?
If you were able to hit yourself with Pulse Wave as the attacker, the attack would be negated because you are not able to use powers or abilities. Since Pulse Wave is a power you would not be able to use it.
If you were able to hit yourself with Pulse Wave as the attacker, the attack would be negated because you are not able to use powers or abilities. Since Pulse Wave is a power you would not be able to use it.
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PULSE WAVE RANGE: Halve range, [improved targeting] . Other characters within range can’t use powers or abilities (for this action). Make a range attack targeting all characters, at least one of which must be opposing, within range and line of fireusing their printed defense values. If more than one character is targeted, each hit character is dealt 1 damage instead of normal damage.
Yup.. The precedent is there. It's clear. You always pulsewave yourself. I don't know why they put the part in about a single target, because there's always at least two.. strange.
All kidding aside, I can't argue with the wording. The power only seems to exempt you from losing your powers and abilities. not from being targeted. It should read "all other characters"
You answered your own question. That was the point.
How did I do that? Am I missing something? The powers turned off say "other characters" but the attack says "all characters".
Quote : Originally Posted by BrunoHarm
Yup.. The precedent is there. It's clear. You always pulsewave yourself. I don't know why they put the part in about a single target, because there's always at least two.. strange.
All kidding aside, I can't argue with the wording. The power only seems to exempt you from losing your powers and abilities. not from being targeted. It should read "all other characters"
I figured it was an intent thing, just making sure I didn't miss something.
It isn’t just intent. It’s the rule against superfluity. If you targeted yourself you would always have two targets since there must be an opposing character. Therefore the last sentence about if there is more than one target is superfluous and oddly written. It would just say this attack deals 1 damage instead of normal damage. The way the last sentence is written shows that the middle sentence about who to target must mean you don’t target yourself. But yes it could have been better written.
I’m pretty sure there is a thread about this already.
I feel like the "all characters" line in the rule book is actually poorly written. I don't think all characters ever actually means that a character targets itself (I think that is intended to cover friendly characters). And the sidebar that follows that section actually calls out Pulse Wave as a power that targets friendlies.
Otherwise a lot of the Colossal Retaliators would also KO themselves.
"I think it is very important to consider your venue a community and not a commodity." - tyroclix
I feel like the "all characters" line in the rule book is actually poorly written. I don't think all characters ever actually means that a character targets itself (I think that is intended to cover friendly characters). And the sidebar that follows that section actually calls out Pulse Wave as a power that targets friendlies.
Otherwise a lot of the Colossal Retaliators would also KO themselves.
But haven't a lot of special powers been ruled that the character also targets itself? I feel like there is precedent.
But haven't a lot of special powers been ruled that the character also targets itself? I feel like there is precedent.
Such as?
This is not a new issue, it has come up in the past. Aside from Energy Explosion targeting an adjacent character, I can't think of anything where an attacking character would be hitting itself with its own attack.
And come to think of it, I'm not even certain the EE thing is a problem any longer under the current rules, since that was caused by Area of Effect, which is gone. EE now has the same wording as some Colossal Retaliations, and other similar effects.
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ENERGY EXPLOSION RANGE: Make a range attack, and all other characters adjacent to an original target also become targets. Hit characters are dealt 2 damage instead of normal damage.
If you can EE yourself, then Giant-Man here is always going to hit himself in the face with his plane wing.
Edit: both EE and Giant man say "all Other characters" which sounds like it excludes the attacker. That would be quite a change for EE, I'd like to hear a ruling on that.
Is there a rule somewhere that makes an exception to targeting exclusively for attacks?
I know you used to be able to splash yourself with EE (even before AoE was a thing). Which is further why I think that line in the rule book is something that is poorly written. I am going to look at the 2014 rule book whenI get home to see how it was written then.
"I think it is very important to consider your venue a community and not a commodity." - tyroclix
Is Perplex an attack? What does this have to do with anything?
This is the only rule I can find that differentiates targeting for an attack vs. targeting for anything else.
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A character can’t target itself or a friendly character with
an attack unless the effect specifically says it can target a
“friendly character” or the attack targets “all characters.”
I know you used to be able to splash yourself with EE (even before AoE was a thing). Which is further why I think that line in the rule book is something that is poorly written. I am going to look at the 2014 rule book whenI get home to see how it was written then.
From the 2014 rules-
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A character can’t target itself or a friendly character unless specifically allowed to or it uses a game effect that targets “all characters” or “friendly characters.”
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ENERGY EXPLOSION When this character is given a ranged combat action and deals damage, an area of effect may include all untargeted characters that are adjacent to one or more hit targets assigned at least 1 damage. Hit targets are dealt damage normally, other hit characters are dealt 1 damage for each printed on this character’s base
Compare to the current EE, specifically the lack of "all other characters". And yes, EE could splash the user prior to AoE, and just like AoE, the splash damage didn't target.
Quote : Originally Posted by BrunoHarm
This is the only rule I can find that differentiates targeting for an attack vs. targeting for anything else.