So I was looking at the new LE Wonder Woman and her power got me thinking.

LASSO OF TRUTH: Wonder Woman can use Incapacitate as if she had a range value of 3...

Now I'm assuming the "as if she had a range of 3" is a replacement value... but I can't find anything in the rulebook or comprehensive rules to back that up.
If it is a replacement, could it be replaced by another value (e.g. if there were a figure that could replace an adjacent figure's range with a different value. I was thinking of the sniper rifle originally, but that's before other modifiers so it has no effect on this power)? And could it be modified (perplex or whatnot)?

I'm assuming a lot of things for what I think the answers are but I just want to verify before I go for the figure and use her wrong.

This is the way I see it and I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Replacements or modifiers apply in this case. The power very clearly states that she can use incapacitate but only with a range of 3. Replacing her range with another number might give her a ranged attack but would not affect this power nor do I believe it could be modified.

Having said that I await a purple response to see if I'm right or not.

My understanding is that the 'as if' is not a replacement value. You are not actually replacing her Range Value, nor does her use of Incap use her Range Value, even if you did give her the Sniper Rifle. Her Incap is strictly limited to the use of 3 range(or still can be used as Close).

(Hopefully I'm back in a state of mind that I can be mature here again. Hello again, everyone.)
One (maybe not) very important note here is that this series of figures all use pre-Mighty Thor wording, so any interpretations must be made as if they were older figures. Experts in those rules will obviously have priority here, but this reads like a replacement to me. If the "as if" thing really has rules implications, I've looked up some precedent for figures with "range of" in their effects ("range value of" would also work to find Rat King, but "range of" got plenty of results as it was). There are indeed many figures that have "as if" and those who do not.

However, most of these results are spread over different sets. For an apples-to-apples comparison, I did see a lot of entries within "Web of Spider-Man" that have this phrase, and all of them who use it in this way (and don't just generally give a range detached from effects) use "as if." All other sets that have multiple pieces with the phrase "range of" in their effects also use "as if." Given how much history exists in this game, I'd basically see if there's any ruling precedent on this phrase, but from what I see, it looks just as likely that it could be a difference in the way different people wrote them. I'd be very interested to see that history lesson.

While we're on the subject, the two new-age figures I could find with similar "range of" effects are aiG017 Giganto & Namor and xxs044 Rockslide. Neither use "as if," and I imagine with the reinvigorated focus on compressing word use, I can't imagine anything else will in the future. These are oranges to apples though, as those are explicitly designed under new 2017 rules. I have a definite interest in this, as I someday plan to use tmnt2024 Rat King with Ambidextrous (with the minimum cost 12 specific to that feat). I've seen rulings suggesting that would work, but the issue becomes whether I could use his Perplex to make his range 7 for the Mind Control.

On this specific issue of Wonder Woman & Sniper Rifle, assuming I am correct that it is a replacement, WW creates a new replacement on top of the old one, so it would override Sniper Rifle and restrict her to 3. The real issue becomes whether that could then be modified. If it is not a replacement, well then it's just 3 and that's that. Either way, it doesn't work with Sniper Rifle.

Continuing to edit... this would seem to be the most relevant rule in question.
The example then outlines it, without "as if."
Pre-2017 rules do not give a relevant example that I could find. I could not find anything regarding "as if" in any rule book.

It is a replacement value. As Organous pointed out (welcome back from your self-imposed exile, btw), these figures were written under the previous rules set. Anything that that tells you to use one value instead of the normal/default value is a replacement.

And besides that, there's nothing else it could be. Nothing has really changed as far as the definition of replacement values, they've just tightened up wordings. There is no magical third option here, you either use the default value or a replacement value when calculating anything in the game.

Regarding the Sniper Rifle example, yes, that is why the Rifle received errata so that it had to be the first replacement value used, because it cause a lot of issues with these kinds of interactions.

And yes, the Rat King/Ambidextrous interaction works.

That's what I thought, LJ, but I couldn't find the wording anywhere to back up what I was assuming. So yes to the perplex or another replacement (if one was ever made that wasn't beforehand like sniper rifle). I was also thinking of a recent medic that could use an AV of 11 but I can't think of who that is...
Thanks for the confirmation!

[Edit] Ah, found it! Dr McCoy has an attack value that "becomes 11"... definitely replacement. Lol!
It seems odd that so many LEs use either old language or unusual language as if someone other than the normal writers make the LEs.

I'm inclined to believe that those LE figures were designed a long time ago and set on the side, waiting for when WK was ready to release them. Due to WK's legal contracts, the licensors have to approve literally each figure (from what I understand), so even making rules updates to the wording would have to go through the approval process. That's not really worth it for a small number of figures. Still... that was about a year ago now. This had better be the last batch like that.

With the new Scarface object that allows the character to have a "Minimum range value 4.", what happens if they have 6 regular range and use pulse wave.

Would they have 6 replaced to 3 (pulse wave), or would it be 6 replaced to 3 (pulse wave) and then replaced with 4 (Scarface), or would it be 6 replaced with 3 replaced with 4 replaced with 2 (pulse wave)?

Edit: or....I don't know what I'm talking about.

Note the collector's numbering on them, "X17", which means they were designed long before the rules changes. Something weird happened last year that screwed up Monthly OP kit releases, we still don't really have any idea what (nor will we ever, most likely). All the Monthly OP LE's we've seen since the beginning of last year were designed in 2016 or early 2017. The only LE's we've seen that use the new rules are the WKO stuff. Which just happen to come in sets of 3, like Monthly OP's did. And coincidentally, there are no more Monthly kits scheduled.


Minimums are not replacement values. They only affect the final result of a calculation. In this scenario, you begin by calculating range normally, which barring any other effects in play, results in a 3 Range for the PW. That result is less than the minimum, so you then use 4 instead of the result of the calculation.

Here are relevant rules:

Based on this, I would say 6 is replaced with 3, and then the minimum value is used instead, so the final value is 4.

Oooh... so the Hulkbuster Right Arm just got much better for me!
Throw that on any PW piece that would normally have less range (which, honestly, would be most pieces as they'd need a 12 to get to 6 in the end) and have a big old wave!

That's what I was just thinking... I never considered that these "minimum range" things would impact PW... or HSS for that matter. I suppose. Wow! Now to pair that with Nova Blast some how. lol!

I'd like to discuss this a little further. This does not say 'with a range value of 3' or 'replace her range with 3'. Grammatically, 'as if' would be introducing a virtual scenario, one that is not really affecting anything. There is nothing I could find in the rules to define how to use 'as if' that would override the grammatical use. The nearest WIN ruling I could find to set any form of precedent is:
This is not comparing apples to [insert some drastically different random usually inorganic object here!] comparison, I know 'occupying a square' and 'range' are very different, but we can get some idea to how WK intends to use 'as if', which they even individually quote to set it apart as something special. Here they specify that this 'as if' only goes as far as what is stated in the power, even other effects that directly relate to that attack such as PC.

Likewise, Wonder Woman's use of Incap should be the only thing that interacts with the 'as if' range. Other replacements/modifiers work directly on her 'actual' range value, there shouldn't be any way for them to affect this 'virtual' value. If their intent was to allow Wonder Woman to use Incap up to 3 squares away, but not allow someone to 'perplex her lasso longer', this would be a quick and easy way to indicate that.

I have submitted to WIN just in case they will answer this as well.

For what it's with, this is exactly why I was asking... none of the documents said what the phase meant or if it was plain English.