Hello, I've got a small question concerning simultaneous effects.

Suppose Player A, the turn player, has Sangan and Witch of the Black Forest on his side of the field. Player B has Sangan on his side of the field. Player A activates Dark Hole, sending all monsters to the graveyard at the same time.

How would this look like in a chain? Would they alternate, or would the turn player's monsters be the first two links in the chain?

Thanks for your help.

It shouldn't matter in this scenario. Both would get to seek as nothing prevents anyone from adding to their hand.

Yes it does matter; one player gets to see what the other selects, and has a chance to counter his opponent's selection.

I Would Think It Would Be Turn Player Not To Sure I've Had Happen Once That Both Players Get Their Monsters And Then Show Each Other Thats How I Think It Should Be Played.

OK then this is how it would resolve. Turn player has priority to use one of their effects. They can use it or pass priority to opponent. If they pass then opponent can also pass meaning the turn player would then have to resolve one of their effects. Now the other player can't pass priority and would have to seek. Then turn player seeks for the other and chain ends.

That doesn't sound right. This is a chain of mandatory effects - in this situation, the turn player's effect always goes first in the chain. I wanted to find out what would happen if the turn player had two mandatory effects and the opposing player had one.

Effects always go on a chain. The turn player always has priority to use their effect first. I played Last Turn and learned the ins and outs of it and it required extensive chain resolution. I believe this is on the judges board if you use that. This is how it described it. I have been proven wrong a lot though and am always learning so get a LV2 judge to confirm.

Ok this is quite a pesky little case, but this is how it would resolve...... turn player has to resolve both its effect FIRST (being him the turn player), he as the turn player would choose the order in which his two effect would resolve (meaning if he would choose to resolve Sangas or Witches effect first (being this because he as both monsters are his, he can choose the order in which to place them in the chain)), after the turn player resolves his 2 effects, player B in this case would resolves his/her Sangan's effect...... hope this helps

But wouldn't the turn player have the option of passing priority to the other player? How is this different than normal rules for silultaneous effects? The turn player could choose to search for both first or they should be able to pass priority to see what their opponent gets assuming their opponent doesn't pass priority then making the turn player have to resolve? Here's a clip from the judges board.

"""*(*(*“Last Turn” as a chain to “Change of Heart”: Suppose the turn player activates “Change of Heart” and the opponent chains “Last Turn”, then the opponent selects the monster targeted by “Change of Heart” for “Last Turn” (since it’s still on his side of the field, as “Change of Heart” hasn’t resolved yet). Then “Change of Heart” resolves and the turn player gains control of the monster, then Special Summons for “Last Turn”. There is no special Battle Phase. Assuming that the opponent somehow survives the standard Battle Phase, during the End Phase, the turn player has priority to activate and resolve an effect. If the turn player activates and resolves “Change of Heart”, then the monster goes back to the opponent and (assuming nothing else has happened), both players each have 1 monster and the result is a DRAW. If the turn player passes priority to the opponent, the opponent can activate and resolve the effect of “Last Turn” before “Change of Heart”, and in this case the turn player still has 2 monsters and the opponent has zero, so the turn player would win. If the turn player passed priority to the opponent and the opponent passes it back, the turn player MUST activate and resolve an effect, so the effect of “Change of Heart” would expire and both players would have 1 monster each, resulting in a DRAW.*)*)*""

This is actually on the card specifics page on ude so all can view it.

Change of Heart and Last Turn are NOT simultaneous effects they mearly create a chain.... simultaneous effects must be effects that activate in the precise exact time in the current chain (i.e. play swords activate 2 flip effect monsters face-down).... there's a huge difference b/w this........ in CoolKids case both Sangan's and Witch hit the grave at the exact time due to a cards effect....... in this case Dark Hole.......

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not argueing. I'm trying to understand how this is different.

Change of Heart and Last Turn both have effects that activate in the end phase thus I believe making them simultaneous.

Dark Hole sending the field to the graveyard activates 3 different monsters effects at the same time I believe making the same simultaneous effects. How are they different?

Ok see the fact that CoH and LT effects activate in a certain step of the turn does not change the fact that they had to be played in a "CHAIN" in order for them to resolve...... in this case they don't "ACTIVATE" at the same time they just begin there resolving phase on the same time but the "simultaneous" part of the effects happen when the effects activate at the same time in which case its "impossible" (in theory) to resolve them (in which case the turn player chooses to resolve them), becuase of the fact that this effects are UNCHAINABLE....... CoH and LT did in fact had to first one of the respond to the activation of the other..... creating this a normal resolution chain......... not sure if I cleared it completely let me know if I did....

Here is how it would work:

This is a classic case of SEGOC...

The turn player would decide which effect he will place as chain link one (Witch or Sangan). The opponent would then place his effect as chain link two followed by the turn player's last effect as chain link #3.

Resolve the chain in reverse order.

Cheers,

According to my knowledge, this is how the chain would work out:

Chain Link One - Sangan/Witch (Player A)
Chain Link Two - Sangan/Witch (Player A)
Chain Link Three - Sangan (Player B)

The turn player would put all mandatory effects on the chain before the opponent could, then the opponent could put their mandatory effects on the chain.

If the need should arise, you would follow the same procedure for optional effects if they were to occur simultaneously.

That's what I was looking for. You're sure on this, right? I'm getting mixed responses, and I just want to make sure (it's not that I don't trust you).

Thanks for your help.