Ok. I have a face up Sangan on the field and a face down Torrential Tribute. My opponent summons Chaos Sorcerer "with priority" to remove Sangan. I activate Torrential Tribute in response to Chaos Sorcerer's summoning. Does Sangan get removed or not? Does anyone know the "correct" ruling in this situation.

Next one. I have a face down Torrential Tribute on the field and my opponent has a face down Bottomless Trap Hole. I summon Pheonix of Nephthys to the field and my opponent activates Bottomless Trap Hole in response to the summoning. Can I activate Torrential Tribute in response to the summoning of Pheonix myself to save her from being removed?

Give me the verdicts please.

Thanks. Lokius.

1. Priority make Chaos Sorcerer's effect chain link 1 of a chain. Sangan gets removed then Torrential Tribute destroys the Sorcerer.

2. Yes. Because you are chaining to Bottomless. The last link in the chain resolves first and Torrential destroys Phoenix. Bottomless' effect dissappears because both:
- Bottomless can only be activated in response to a summon of a monster with 1500 ATK or more. Torrential interrupts this.
- Bottomless' target is no longer there to remove.

Hope this helps!

This is incorrect. Priority allows you to activate an effect first; it won't necessarily be the first to resolve.

So, although you are correct that the turn player can retain priority to activate "Chaos Sorcerer"'s effect as Chain Link 1, you are incorrect in assuming that it will be the first thing to resolve.

If "Torrential Tribute" is activated in response to "Chaos Sorcerer"'s effect (the timing is correct, because the last thing to have resolved in the game state is still a Summon), the chain resolves like this:

Chain Link 2 resolution: "Torrential Tribute"'s effect resolves, and all monsters on the field are destroyed.

Chain Link 1 resolution: "Chaos Sorcerer"'s effect disappears, because the selected monster is no longer face-up on the field.


You're correct here, but some of the reasoning is not.

The only reason "Bottomless Trap Hole"'s effect disappears is because the Summoned monster is no longer on the field. It has nothing to do with being "interrupted", as the timing for BTH was correct upon activation.

Steve. you are the man. Thank you so much. I've been arguing with the homie over the Sangan thing for weeks. Peace.

If you are not chaining to the effect of Bottomless Trap Hole but to the summoning of the monsters then why would Bottomless Trap Holes Effect not resolve first? Since it started a chain and there are no other links to it would have to resolve first before TT effect can go on.

Because in the example, BTH was activated first, then TT was chained to BTH.

Chain Link 1 = BTH
Chain Link 2 = TT

No that is wrong,

In the example he is not chaining to BTH. You CAN'T chain TT to BTH you can only activate TT in responce to Summoning,

The only thing confusing me in the ruling on Pheonix is whether or not u can even chain torrential to bottomless. It's not even a chain is it? b/c they both have the exact same requirements for activation. So who's effect goes 1st is really the argument right? Whats the answer here?

Its a figure of speech, chaining because there IS another Chain Link before. The summoning is still the LAST game fact at the moment, so TT is still able to be activated, and though it is being activated in response to Chaos Sorcerer's summoning it IS STILL creating a Chain, considered being Chain Link 2 precisely.

Steve Okegawa does not need you to back up his answers.


Next one. I have a face down Torrential Tribute on the field and my opponent has a face down Bottomless Trap Hole. I summon Pheonix of Nephthys to the field and my opponent activates Bottomless Trap Hole in response to the summoning. Can I activate Torrential Tribute in response to the summoning of Pheonix myself to save her from being removed?


2. Yes, you can chain Torrential Tribute to the activation of Bottomless Trap Hole since, like in the last example, the summoning of the monster is still the last, base, thing to happen in the chain, so Torrential Tribute will destroy all monsters on the field first (being Chain Link 2) and then Bottomless Trap Hole will attempt to resolve, but since there are no monsters on the field, it will resolve without effect and Phoenix will not be removed from play.

So if you summon Phoenix and I play Bottomless Trap Hole and then you play TT can I then play another Bottomless Trap Hole so that my second Bottomless Trap Hole would go first before the TT.

Also if you summon Pheonix and I play BTH and chain with Seven Tools, Can I then chain to my first BTH with another BTH since that would be on the Summoning Chain Link and not the same one as the Seven Tools?

You can chain Bottomless Trap Hole to Torrential Tribute in your first question. In your second one, you cannot chain a Spell Speed 2 effect to a Counter Trap, which has a Spell Speed of 3.

Once Seven Tools was played, the only thing that can be done is activate another Counter Trap, such as Solemn Judgment to negate Seven Tools, or another Seven Tools. Once the chain resolves, you can no longer respond to the summon with another Bottomless Trap Hole.

1. Yes...since the initial, base, event was a monster being Special Summoned in this case so the timing for both cards would be correct.

In this case, the 2nd Bottomless Trap Hole resolves first, destroying Phoenix and removing it from play, then Torrential Tribute resolves and destroys all other monsters on the field and then the first Bottomless Trap Hole resolves without effect since there would no longer be any monsters it would be able to remove

2. No because Seven Tools of the Bandit is a Counter Trap, Spell Speed 3. You can only chain Spell Speeds of equal or greater Speed than the card you're chaining to.

In this case, you could ONLY chain another Counter Trap (assuming you can meet its conditions and such).

Yes I understand how the spell speeds work.

But since you cant chaing TT to BTH I was working under the impression that that chain was under a different chain link (The one where the monster was summoned) and since Seven Tools was being chained to the chain link with BTH shouldnt you still be able to chain to the first chain link where the monster is being summoned?

For the first bolded part, who ever said you could not chain TT to BTH in the same chain?? As long as the summon has been the last game event you can still activate TT when BTH was activated.

For the second bolded section, NO, the game registers game facts as well as spell speeds, so as soon as ANY spell speed 3 is activated ONLY spell speed 3 effect would be able to be activated afterwards.