Alright Ladies and Gents I finally have a question of my own.I "think" i know the answer to this question but a lv. 1 judge told me otherwise so here I come for help.


1. Is scapegoat treated as monsters or monster "tokens".

2. Can you chain torrential tribute to scapegoat to destroy all goats?

3. Ex.

Player A: Has 4 Sheep tokens on his or her side of the field.

Player B: Special Summons The Fiend MegaCyber while he/she has 1 monster already on his or her side of the field.

Basically the question is can the fiend megacyber be special summoned due to his effect stating "IF your opponent controls 2 or more monsters than u" or are the goats treated as tokens and not monsters so technically they dont control 2 or more monsters than u...they control 2 tokens and not monsters.

1. Monster Tokens

2. No

3. Tokens take up Monster Zones, so if you have 4 Sheep Tokens, you may only have one monster.

-Shane

3: Yes, the opponent can summon Fiend Megacyber... I think.

u didnt understand the 3rd question...player a has 4 goats and no other monsters player B is tryin to summon the fiend megacyber

Edit: darth vader plz dont flame...also if ur going to flame make sure u click where u are it says rules of dueling up at the top so try to help k?

Sorry, I didn't mean that. To be honest, I accidentally got into this discussion instead of the Strategy Discussion. Don't know what happened!

*Bangs head on monitor*

1. They are treated as face-up Normal Monsters in every way except...

A,) Being flipped f/d (impossible for tokens to be able to)

B.) Being "sent to the Graveyard" (tokens "disappear" when removed from the field in any way)

C.) Being removed from play (same as B)

D.) Being returned to your hand (Same as B)

E.) Being returned to your Deck (same as B)

F.) Any other restrictions placed on them or other cards (Scapegoat making it so its tokens cannot be Tributed for a Tribute Summon, for example)


2. Only if there is nothing preventing you from doing so. Like if you used Heavy Storm and then they chained Scapegoat to it and nothing else happens, then when the chain fully resolves, you can respond to the Sheep Token Summoning with Torrential Tribute and start a new chain.


3. Yes. the player CAN Special Summon The Fiend Megacyber...see #1 for why.

its ok i completely understand no hard feelings really..but the reason why i started this discussion is because ude/netrep says that u can chain torrential to scapegoat but a overrulling head judge at nationals says u cant considering sheep tokens being summoned arent "monsters" but are monster "tokens" so they dont count as monsters which makes it reallly confusing because then that means asura priest couldnt atk all because asura attacks monsters and not tokens but there acting as monsters iono lol

Unfortunately, even the "best" judges can make the simplest mistakes...

but see the thing is thats not a "simple" mistake though it is cuz scapegoat is immensly confusing like last turn lol but the fact that the head judge at nationals said so "which i take very highly considering its a high event" the most important questions are is sheep tokens treated as tokens in terms of monsters or are they treated as monsters but suck or somethin iono

Scapegoat is hardly confusing at all...at least after you read what I put above...nowhere near as weird as Last Turn...


They (any monster token) are treated as face-up Normal Monsters in every way except...

A,) Being flipped f/d (impossible for tokens to be able to)

B.) Being "sent to the Graveyard" (tokens "disappear" when removed from the field in any way)

C.) Being removed from play (same as B)

D.) Being returned to your hand (Same as B)

E.) Being returned to your Deck (same as B)

F.) Any other restrictions placed on them or other cards (Scapegoat making it so its tokens cannot be Tributed for a Tribute Summon, for example)

alright im sorta gettin it and ive understood different people find different things confusing (cuz i dont find last turn confusing at all and i never run it and never have but is to alot of people)

so:

1.Sheep tokens are considered as a faceup monster on your side of the field (and not token) but cannot go face down and will be removed from play if removed from the field (compulsionary will destroy a scapegoat and remove it from play instead of sending it to hand)

2.Their special summon can be chained to with things such as torrential tribute,horn of heavan considering there being special summoned to the field as monster cards and again not tokens

3.Monsters that relate to destroying or involving a monster on your side of the field will resolve as if you have 4 sangans instead of 4 sheep tokens on your side of the field.

Remember Judges aren't machines. You can't use Limiter Removal on them.

alright thanks bout the machine tip thought it was funny but i really need these questions answered xD

1. Face-up NORMAL monsters (meaning Ceasefire does not deal extra damage with tokens and things that affect Normal Monsters also affect them, unless they specify otherwise, like Sword of the Soul-Eater can be equipped to a token, as long as it's Level 3 or lower, but it specifically prohibits you from tributing a token for its tributing).

And they do not specifically get "removed from play", they merely "disappear" from the field (they do not go anywhere at all, whether it be hand, deck, graveyard or removed from play area)


2. Summoning cannot be chained to at all (for any monster), they can be "responded to" though, so yes, you CAN use Torrential Tribute and summoning negator's on them.

3. As The Fiend Megacyber states, the opponent only requires 2 or more monsters than you. Since 4 Sheep Token counts as 4 f/u Normal Monster Cards at the time while on the field, it fulfills the requirement needed (assuming you have 2 or less monsters on your side).

And anything that destroys monsters, affects monsters and such can still affect tokens as well, unless the effect specifically were to state otherwise. (So things like Lightning Vortex can still destroy tokens )

alright thanks got everything i know and i forgot things and wasnt trying to be specific i know about the chainin and f/u normal ;P