i have a card problem with a friend.

Swarm of scarabs says that it can fliped face down once per a turn. when it is flip summoned it destroys one monster on the field. my friend says that once it is flip summoned and goes face down its effect won't activate agian since it was already flip summoned. he thinks that after it is flip summoned its just being flipped. i believe that it is the same concept as golem sentry. this may sound confusing but try to understand what i'm trying to say. if you need a better discription, just tell me.

thanks

If you are manually flipping the monster from being face-down into face up attack, it is a flip summon. If it is flipped face up by any other means (swords, ceasefire, book of taiyou, being attacked) it is not a flip summon.

Yeah, Swarm of Scarabs, Swarm of Locusts and several others can be reused in such a manner.

Basically, here's how it works...

You Flip Summon it (manually flipping it from face-down Defense Position into face-up Attack Position on your own turn), and get the effect (assuming nothing negates and kills it) and then, if you want, you can activate its second effect of flipping it back face-down.

Afterwards, you CANNOT Flip Summon it again since you already Flip Summoned it this turn. Being flipped by an attack or card effect is not a Flip Summon.

That turn... how about next turn?

I meant that turn...

Battle Position rules being that you cannot manually change the battle position of a monster if...

A.) It was Summoned/Set that same turn

B.) The monster has declared an attack (even if the attack was negated)

C.) It already had been manually changed that turn.

Just making sure I had it understood...

Yeah...you can also have the monster face-up, use its effect to flip it face-down and still Flip Summon it that turn (since it was changed with a card effect). Downside being that you can't flip it back face-down that same turn with its own effect...need a Tsukuyomi or Book of Moon or something.

i was wondering something about flip-flop monsters so i'll just aske here. say my oppenent has a flip-flop on the feild, let's just say it's guardian sphinx, he flips it face up uses it's effect and attacks. can he flip it face down with it's effect or can he not do that since it attacked?

Yes...since he's using Guardian Sphinx's effect to flip it face-down...and he hasn't used it yet that same turn.

ok thanks guys for clearing that up. now i get to rub it in his face that i was right. :) :cool: :)

This was a ruling change that was made last summer, in reference to Manual Position changes and effects that involve changing Battle Positions.

It used to be that monsters that were in face-up attack that had a effect that allowed them to flip themselves face-down defense was considered a position change that removed your "once per turn" manual movement. If the monster was simply in face-up defense, the monster could flip itself face-down, and since it never changed it position (as it went defense to defense), you could still Flip Summon it.

Now, it doesnt matter what position the monster is in if it is face-up. You still retain your Manual Position change with flip-flop monsters, or using effects to change a monster from face-up to face-down.