MC/Flurry/ other stuff - rules lawering

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10/22/2003, 13:54

AZS

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MC/Flurry/ other stuff - rules lawering

I read somewhere that if you MC a figure, if you use that fig to Outwit or Perplex something, you've used up the "free action" you get to make with that figure and it ends your MC action.

From a strict rules perspective I can see that. But if its that strict of an interpretation, what happens in the event of Flurry? Specifically the Flurry/Inc junk hitting the fan.
If Flurry is your free action, then is whatever you do with Flurry a free action too? Would it not overlap? Would you be able to use Flurry with Inc and/or CCE?
Can you use flurry at all with MC, or would the first attack with flurry end your 'free action'?

I'm so lost with all the new adjectives used to describe doing something! Calgon! Take me away!

Nothing to see here... move along...

10/22/2003, 13:58

darius_dax1

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I think adding a phrase something like:

...the Mind Control is over when an action token is assigned.

..could have helped clear this up...it would also allow for the Free Actions to be a part of the entire turn's actions.

(Wiz/Kids)

10/22/2003, 14:00

AZS

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Darius, MCed figures no longer get an action token for their action while controlled. A result of the "free action."
That also means you can MC a pushed fig.

Nothing to see here... move along...

10/22/2003, 14:02

rouge2

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OK, here's how it goes:

Mind Control gives the target one free action. That action can be a Combat action, a Move Action, A Power Action or Free Action.

Flurry happens when you give a Close Combat Action (which can be one of your free Actions out lined above) to the figure.

Flurry lets you make two Close Comabt Attacks not take two Close Combat Actions . One Action with two Attacks.

Make sense?

10/22/2003, 14:06

darius_dax1

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Quote

Originally posted by azs
Darius, MCed figures no longer get an action token for their action while controlled. A result of the "free action."
That also means you can MC a pushed fig.

Right. What I meant to say was:

...the Mind Control is over when an action taken would have assigned an action token.

That's what I get for being up so early and working 2 jobs and going to bed too late.

(Wiz/Kids)

10/22/2003, 14:14

darius_dax1

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I also agree with rouge2's explanation.

(Wiz/Kids)

10/22/2003, 14:20

NateTG

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MC works like this:
When you have successfully MC'd the figure, you gain control of the figure, and you get to assign one action to the figure that action is a free action even if it would normally not be. You loose control of the figure when the action is completed.

So, let's say that I have Moondragon successfully Mind Control Wonder Woman.

Then it might work like this:

Code:

Moondragon MC's Wonder Woman
   Assign Charge action to Wonder Woman
      Wonder Woman Move Action
      Wonder Woman Attack Action
   Wonder Woman Charge Action ends and Control returns to owner
Mooddragon's MC Ends, and she takes MC / Push damage.

Since Outwit and Perplex are actions, assigning one of them will end the MC just like any other action.

The Flurry/Incap issue occurs precisely because Flurry grants attacks, and not actions, so the MC problem does not occur with it at all.

I'm not sure whether it's legal, but it's concievable to assign additional actions to the MC'd figure while the initial MC action is occuring:

Let's say that I have a SHIELD Medic on my team, and I use Moondragon to Mind Control V Puppet Master, who proceeds to Mind Control a figure adjacent to him:

Code:

Moondragon MC's V Puppet Master
   V Puppet Master switches to SHIELD ability (Not an action)
   V Puppet Master successfully Mind Controls V Boomerang who is Adjacent
      V Boomerang makes a ranged combat attack on my opponent's medic
         Puppet Master uses the SHIELD ability to boost Boomerang's Damage by 1.
         Puppet Master gets a token from my action allotment for the turn. (Not a free action.)
      Boomerang's ranged combat action resolves.
   Puppet Master's Mind Control ends, Control of Boomerang returns to Boomerang's owner
Moondragon's Mind Control Ends

Note that I can only assign one non-free action to a figure in a turn regardless of the number of times that I Mind Control it.

10/22/2003, 14:44

Balor

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Ummmmm NateTG I dont think your second mindcontrol scenario is right. You use moondragon to mindcontrol Puppet master.
Puppet master switches to Shield TA and then MC's Boomerang. Once Pupper master MC Boomerang his action is then done and he becomes a opposing character to you. Then you can use boomerang to attack. You resolve each action before going on to the next one. At least I think you do az, rouge am i right??

"If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which he has inflicted on men, he would kill himself"
-Alexander Dumas (1802-1870)

10/22/2003, 15:09

rouge2

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Sorry Nate, your second example won't work for a number of reasons.

The first one, which speaks to your point, I think, is that MC gives the target one free action. That does not mean you can also assign "non-free" actions to go along with it.

When you take control of Puppet Master you give him one free action (In this case a Power Action - the second Mind Control). Puppet Master uses that MC on Boomerang who then resolves his action. Puppet master has used (or more correctly - is using) his only action. He can't then go and be given another action (currently, a Move Action to activate SHIELD).

The seconfd reason is the rules of assigning actions. Even if Puppet Master were on your force to begin with, this scenario wouldn't work, as you would be giving Puppet Master Two actions (A Power and A Move) in the same turn, which is strictly prohibited in the rules.

Balor - when Mind controlling a Mind Controller, all Controler characters in the chain are considered friendly until the final figure in the chain completes his/her action (ending the initiator's action).

Hope that helps.

10/22/2003, 15:51

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AZS

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Quote

Originally posted by darius_dax1
Right. What I meant to say was:

...the Mind Control is over when an action taken would have assigned an action token.

actually its over even if the action wouldn't noramally assign a token. IE, the controlled figure gets to make one action as a Free Action.
So if they make a free action as their free action (outwit, perplex) then your control-turn ends.

Just nit picking, but the token-thing was true before, but no longer.

Nothing to see here... move along...

10/22/2003, 16:51

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NateTG

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Quote

Originally posted by rouge2
When you take control of Puppet Master you give him one free action (In this case a Power Action - the second Mind Control). Puppet Master uses that MC on Boomerang who then resolves his action. Puppet master has used (or more correctly - is using) his only action. He can't then go and be given another action (currently, a Move Action to activate SHIELD).

I'm so clear on this, but it certainly isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be:

Mind Control makes the character friendly to you untill the end of the Mind Control. According to the glossary that means that the figure is controlled by you, or by one of your allies. Considering the way that Mind Control works, it seems that controlled by the Mind Controller's controller makes sense.
If Puppet Master is under my control, then I should be able to assign actions to him as normal. The SHIELD ability is unusual because it allows an action token to be assigned to a figure mid-action.

Quote

you would be giving Puppet Master Two actions (A Power and A Move) in the same turn, which is strictly prohibited in the rules.

This is definitely incorrect. Figures may not be given more than one non-free action per turn. Since the action that is given to Puppet Master initially is free (Mind Control makes it free), he can still be assigned a non-free action on the turn.

10/22/2003, 16:59

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DaLuvster89

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Nice job on this can o' worms, azs!

j/k

10/22/2003, 17:04

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Mr. Pilkington

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Okay, this I think is bordering on rules-lawyering. MC states that you give the controller figure a free action, and immediately after that free action concludes they cease being friendly to your team. It in no way states that you can give the controlled figure a non-free action. Since you are within an action with your MCing figure you cannot give other members of you force actions. The MC action gives one free action, usable immediately and then it is over. Now, maybe you want something in print from WizKids that specifically prohibits the scenario you presented, but I think the rules are clear enough as is. MC lets you make one free action with the controlled figure. It does not allow you to make any non-free actions during the greater MC action. Period.

Things fall apart; it's scientific.

10/22/2003, 17:06

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Manchine

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NateTG, your second MC still has a hole in it.

When you have Puppetmaster switch to shield ability. Thats your one action. Free action is still an action.

Code:

Moondragon MC's V Puppet Master
      V Puppet Master successfully Mind Controls V Boomerang who is Adjacent
      V Boomerang makes a ranged combat attack on my opponent's medic
         Boomerang's ranged combat action resolves.
   Puppet Master's Mind Control ends, Control of Boomerang returns to Boomerang's owner
Moondragon's Mind Control Ends

This part is still right. This is called a Mindcontrol Chain. Nothing in the rules has stopped this.

Last edited by Manchine; 10/22/2003 at 17:08..

The GLOBAL DEFENSE FORCE COMIC

10/22/2003, 17:14

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Manchine

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Quote

Originally posted by HeroComplex
That's true, but it still doesn't allow GG to attack Moondragon. A Mind Control action isn't finished until the action of the target figure is finished. So Moondragon isn't given her action token or push damage until Goblin has finished. During his action, Goblin is friendly to the original attacker, and since it is also Moondragon's action she is also. They are friendly to each other and this is why a figure may never attack a figure who appeared earlier in the MC chain that MCed him.

Code:

Professor X MCs Moondragon Moondragon MCs Green Goblin Green Goblin Moves Green Goblin's action is over. Moondragon's action is over. Professor X's action is over.

Herocomplex discussion thread

I know its old but the only part of this rule that has changed is giving an action token.

Last edited by Manchine; 10/22/2003 at 17:16..

The GLOBAL DEFENSE FORCE COMIC

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