i activate a trap while having a w.rhynos and my opp. a ladd.whos effect will activate first chaining the trap?does any of the 2 missing the timming?

LADD is mandatory and will force itself on the chain first, stopping you from chaining rhynos effect directly to the trap card.

The good and the bad is, you can always chain a second Trap to LaDD's effect if you really want to get Rhynos off the field, but you lose two Traps and only reduce LaDD by 500 ATK/DEF in the process, so the second Trap better be a good one!!!

Winged Rhynos:

Text
When a Trap Card is activated, you can return this face-up card from the field to it's owner's hand.


You should still be able to chain Rhyno's effect as chain link three.

Hmm, I was wondering this too, but the text of "can" indicates to me that it is an optional trigger effect and must be activated directly after the activation of a trap card...

While not "directly" related to the issue at hand, I wonder if the second half of this rulings helps at all:

You are correct in that it is an optional trigger effect. But it won't miss the timing in this example.

Usually, you miss the timing of optional effects that trigger during the resolution of a chain. In this example we aren't resolving anything yet, we are only building the chain.

You can ONLY chain to the activation of a Trap Card, the same as you would using a Counter Trap against an appropriate effect, i.e., Magic Jammer negating Destiny Draw. Now, you are saying that Rhynos can chain to LaDD activating "his" effect.

You cannot activate his effect if the player has a Mandatory Effect that places itself on the chain first, and it is not another Spell Speed 2 Trap. Rhynos cannot be activated unless it directly follows the activation of a Trap Card.

Also, since LaDD negates "activations" of Spell, Trap, and Monster Effects, you wouldnt even be able to use Rhynos' effect to begin with, since the Trap Card is considered to never have been activated, the same as having a Great Shogun Shien and a effect card that gets its activation negated. You can still activate another S/T effect

LaDD and Rhynos' effects both triggered at the same time (when the trap card was activated) since you have two effects trying to activate at the same time you need to resolve them in a chain with the mandatory effect placed on the chain first followed by the optional effect.

So the chain will look like this:

link 1: trap card
link 2: Ladd
link 3: Rhynos

This is not true. Read the Rule book, advanced gameplay, simultaneous effects section for a more in-depth explanation.

This is also not true. LaDD does not negate anything until it resolves. We haven't resolved any effects yet, we are only building the chain at this point.

You misunderstood the entire point. Rhyno isnt a Trigger Effect. Rhynos is just like Strike Ninja, whereas he is a Multi-Trigger Effect. You "choose" to activate his effect based on the condition of a Trap Card being activated, which means it can miss its timing, and that was the whole point I was making. You cant choose to activate his effect because LaDD forcefully places itself as chain link 2, which means that Rhynos no longer has a Trap Card to chain to, and once LaDD resolves, there is nothing more for Rhynos to even try to activate from, since the activation was negated.

I know very well the Advanced Gameplay section. Perhaps you might want to read up on Multi-Trigger Effects.

You Guys are smart in the concept of yugimonz >.>

All them there big words and such

Rhyno's effect is a trigger effect. It follows the classic trigger effect template that we use in Yugioh:

"when" this happens... , "you can" do this...

Winged Rhynos:

Text
When a Trap Card is activated, you can return this face-up card from the field to it's owner's hand.

Its a multi-trigger effect or it couldn't activate in a chain to a spell speed 2 card. If it was some sort of exceptional trigger, you would be able to use it with spell speed 3 cards as well, which we know you can't.

It's definitely a multi-trigger effect like masterwoo said.

First off I didn't say that it wasn't a multi trigger effect. I'm saying that it is a trigger effect.

woo said that Rhynos is just like Strike Ninja's effect which it is not. Strike Ninja can activate it's effect any time you could activate a normal spell speed 2 effect. This is not true with Rhynos. You need the activation of a trap card before you can activate Rhyno's effect because he requires a trigger.

An effect cannot be both Trigger and Multi-Trigger at the same time. =\ It's either one or the other, and the two work very differently.

If Rhynos is a Trigger effect, then it CANNOT chain to anything. It would always be Chain Link 1 (with the exception of SEGOC). Since we know this is not the case, then that must mean that Rhynos is a Multi-Trigger effect. And as shown by the rulings on LaDD vs. SEGOC effects, only the newest Chain Link is looked at by Multi-Trigger effects.

A Triggered Effect has a Spell Speed of 1. Winged Rhynos can only activate when a Trap Card is played, but that does not make him a Triggered Effect. That only places the condition to which he CAN use his effect, similar to if his condition was that he could only use his effect during a players Standby Phase. That is the only timing for his effect.

A Trigger Effect is something you have no control over its activation, and you must decide (if it is optional) to either use it, or not use it. Winged Rhynos doesnt Trigger from a Trap Card and force you to decide to use his effect, like Mobius when he is summoned.