Can anyone tell me why they switched out "Monster Reborn" for "Call of the Haunted"?

Is there a specific reason?

Just seems odd that they would ban two revival cards ("Premature Burial" and "Call of the Haunted") take a revival card off the list to make up for it ("Monster Reborn") then immediately (relatively speaking) switch the one they took off for one of the ones they put on.

Did they feel they made a mistake or what?

Premature was mainly banned due to Arms hole, an ocg exclusive that we will be getting soon. Between call and reborn, the latter is definately more powerful, so if one had to stay, in terms of power, that would be Call, and i agree with this decision.

I don't disagree with the decision, I just don't understand it.

It's not about "which one has to stay", it's about flip-flopping them on and off the list for (seemingly) no reason.

Why un-ban Monster Reborn at all if you're just going to re-ban it the very next format?

Why not just keep Call of the Haunted at one, rather than shelving it to bring back a card for such a short period of time?

You see what I'm saying?

I guess a better way of asking my question would be:

"Given that it was only off of the list for a single format, why was Monster Reborn even unbanned in the first place?"

It's my understanding that cards are on the list, and in the places they are on the list, because either:

a.) They're inherently too powerful, and unbalance the game by their mere presence. (Cards such as "Pot of Greed", "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning", etc...)

or

b.) Are not inherently overpowered, but when used in unison with specific cards and/or in specific numbers create unbalanced combos. ("Butterfly Dagger - Elma", "Card of Safe Return", etc...)

Given this, I was under the impression that cards only changed positions on the list when the current cardpool/metagame and/or official rulings changed in such a way that once overpowered cards can now be easily handled and/or "broken" combos become ineffective.

"Green Baboon - Defender of the Forrest", "Jinzo", "Breaker The Magical Warrior", "Vampire Lord", "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys", etc. were all cards that used to be much more effective and thus more restricted. As their usefulness gradually declined, they dropped lower and lower on the list until eventually coming off entirely.

"Premature Burial" and "Call of the Haunted" were elevated higher on the list because combos with newer cards made them more effective than they should be. Monster Reborn was taken off of the list of "Banned Cards" and placed on the "Restricted to One" section (presumably) to "make up for it".

My question then, is why was this reversed after a single format?

Did the circumstances that led to Call being banned and Monster Reborn being unbanned change?

Seems more General Discussion, but...

Anyway, as I keep saying, Konami doesn't outright PREDICT such things (probably don't even bother to most of the time). They didn't simply unban Monster Reborn and ban Call of the Haunted while fully KNOWING they'd just ban Monster Reborn and unban Call of the Haunted in 6 more months. Just like how I doubt they ever predicted or tried to predict that Dark Dive Bomber would be banned not THAT long after coming out like people complained about. ("Why release it if they're just gonna ban it?" =\ )

It's really the fault of the players in how they (figure out how to) use things in such ways or simply because of meta shifts, and Konami really just responds to meta changes with list changes to try to balance them out a bit before they grow too out of hand, if they hadn't already.


Besides Arms Hole, Premature Burial also had Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Boundary as sort of a "permanent" Giant Trunade to abuse its effect. Constant use + easy searching + good effect as it is = no surprise that it got banned.


You also have to remember how the metas were when Call of the Haunted got banned and Monster Reborn was taken off;

1.) Removal-based Decks with Macro Cosmos were pretty prominent. This made revival in general less effective and really took away from Monster Reborn's overall strength. Not to mention a lot of things that you could steal from your opponent is stuff you could've otherwise gotten from your own Graveyard a lot of the time given all the Mirror Matches there were.

2.) One of, if not THE big reason Call of the Haunted was so effective is banned; D. Hero Disc Guy/"Disk Commander". With Call of the Haunted, you could easily get a 2 card draw during either player's turn. Your turn, so you can then Tribute it off for a Tribute Summon or, if it weren't banned, use it for a Synchro Summon, or use it during your opponent's turn while they waste m/t removal. Monster Reborn can only be used during your turn, thus cutting that sort of effectiveness in half. But now Disc Guy doesn't need to be worried about as well as Dark Magician of Chaos and whatnot.


...but now removal Decks are dead (again) and Monster Reborn pretty much regained its former glory, especially with better Tuners and Synchros out there to use it with and more varied Decktypes than before. This time, Call of the Haunted's power was cut down a bit, so they switched it back around now that the balance of power has greatly shifted.

You would think, wouldn't you? This would certainly make sense. History has demonstrated, however, that the real method they use is having monkeys pull cards out of a hat at random. Reborn must have gotten pulled this round, hence, it gets banned.

For some, it may seem that way (or for stuff coming off).

Like, IMO, Tsukuyomi seems safe enough to come off the list overall. FLIP: Effects and Flip-Flip stuff is like...never really used. Can't be Special Summoned, and keeps bouncing itself back at the end of the turn anyway, making it pretty slow for people these days as well as leaving yourself 1 monster less each turn really.

Personally, I would rather have neither than have Call. I understand they want to slow the games down some but Call can be just as broken as Reborn, like its ability to be reused and combo w/ Jinzo. I would rather have Reborn, but if the choice was COTH or nothing, I would choose nothing.

Except Jinzo is never used anymore and still easily removable anyway, hence why Jinzo is at 3. Not like Magic Planter is really used a whole lot anyway, even if you bring back Jinzo or using Royal Decree/Trap Stun which results in a "dead" Call of the Haunted.

Most of the other stuff that could be used with it is banned anyway (Disc Guy and DMoC and such), so you'll only really be using it as a 1-sided revival, a stall by Special Summoning a bigger monster during your opponent's turn when they attack or something, or simply for Tribute or Synchro Summoning.

See, that answers my question. Thank you.

There are several that I think should've come off of the list a long time ago.

Is "Witch of the Black Forrest" really still that good? What about "Time Seal"? etc...

Some cards seem to linger on the list LONG after they stop being game breakers...

Oh yeah, Witch of the Black Forest, if anything, grew A LOT in power over the last dozen Sets or so because of low DEF/high ATK monsters getting pumped out; Dark Armed Dragon being 1 of them with 1000 DEF. If Witch weren't banned, then it really wouldn't matter all that much if DAD is at 1. You could still easily search it out by sending Witch to the Graveyard for a Tribute or Synchro Summon.

Then consider the various lower Level monsters use in Decks today with 1500 or less DEF; Tuners included. Then consider the fact that it's effect does NOT miss the timing because of being mandatory so, as said, you can easily Tribute it as a cost for something or use it for a Tribute or Synchro Summon, giving you 1 big monster/effect + replacing 1 card in your hand with another (most likely) big monster from your Deck. Then consider the fact that Witch itself is searchable/easily recyclable in ways.

Time Seal as well. Besides being chainable to m/t removal, cutting off 1 of your opponent's Draw Phases just like that can really end up slowing them down a lot with such emphasis on speed these days, especially with the lack of more general draw cards. And when you add in other hand-controllers like Trap Dustshoot, Mind Crush, etc, then losing even just 1 Draw Phase hurts that much more which is also why Reckless Greed isn't really seen used at all and why it's unrestricted, even if you could, if you're lucky enough, chain 2-3 together to draw 6 cards while only losing your next 2 immediate Draw Phases. But, as said, you'd have to be extremely lucky and you'd technically only draw 3 "new" cards since 3 of them merely replace the 3 Reckless Greed you Set before.

Ok, I see your point about the witch, but I'm still not sure I see the badness of Time Seal. :/

1.) No cost/requirement to activate. Just a regular Trap Card.

2.) Skips your opponent's NEXT Draw Phase, just like that.

3.) Chainable to m/t removal and whatnot.

4.) Lack of general drawing cards (depending on Decktype anyway).

5.) When used in conjunction with other hand control cards (Spirit Reaper, Don Zaloog, Trap Dustshoot, Mind Crush, D. D. Designator, etc), you not only stall your opponent, but you also strain them on resources, forcing them to use what they probably didn't want to use yet just to keep themselves alive. For all you know, their next draw could be something to end the game.

Basically, there are NO downsides to it while your opponent missing just 1 Draw Phase can easily turn the tide of the Duel against them. Yes, only 1 Draw Phase may not seem like much, but in a game where people are SO emphasized on speed, it can easily spell doom if they're slowed down like that.

Well then why isn't "Drop Off" at least limited? It does almost the same thing. (they have to discard whatever card they draw)

Because...

1.) Drop Off only has ONE point where it can be activated, when the opponent draws during the Draw Phase.

Time Seal had NO specific activation timing meaning Drop Off can be gotten rid of BEFORE it can be used without worry of being chained. Time Seal can, thus you still get the effect while, at the same time, making the opponent possibly waste m/t removal.


2.) The opponent can still use the discarded card, possibly. If they happen to discard stuff like a DARK monster, they could fuel DAD's Special Summon or effect. If they ditch a Lightlord, they can spring Judgment Dragoon. If they ditch Zombie Carrier/"Plaguespreader Zombie", they can revive it with its effect. Or if it's virtually any monster, they can use Call of the Haunted to revive it and so on and so forth.

Time Seal prevents them from drawing anything outright, thus nothing there for the opponent to use, thus stalling them from that draw for the turn. With Drop Off, you could end up HELPING the opponent more than hurting them these days.

*sighs*

Man. This game has gotten so complicated.

I remember back when it first started. Summon, beat, repeat. lol