OK. It's 3am and this idea hit me. Not sure exactly of the game mechanics, cause it's 3am. That's what this thread is for. An INTELLECTUAL discussion on the feasibility of this idea.

It's mainly meant as a minor foible to VTOLs, but works against anything that can move and attack.

Basically, by giving one of your units an "Aim" order, you can have it target a unit that is presently outside of your range, but within your firing arc, and delay your attack. If targeted unit (marked by a token during your turn) enters your firing arc AND your range during your opponents next turn, you make your delayed attack at that time. Pushing and heat only apply if you DO make an attack, but no cooling takes effect if an attack is not made, to represent the shifting necessary to keep a target in your sights (and also to balance the use of the order AND to minimize game mechanics).

My thought is there should be a maximum aiming distance across the board, such as 8". That's just an arbitrary number, but it is still less than the doubling of any AA gun to my knowledge, not slighting their advantage at all.

I had more thoughts, but a patient interrupted my thinking. Dang sick people. So, on to the discussion.

So basically you're saying you want Overwatch rules, telling a unit to do nothing this turn so it can fire on your opponent's turn.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but these kind of rules have been done a lot before, and there is a very big reason why it has been removed from games like Warhammer 40k.

It might not be obvious to you at first, but what overwatch rules does is promote sitting on your ### and waiting for your opponent to come to you. This combined with artillery would ruin mechwarrior. Your opponent has no choice but to get within your overwatching firepower or else suffer from artillery.

If no artillery is involved, the game boils down to (generally) whoever moves forward first, loses. Especially in this game, as units degrade after getting shot (rather than members of a squad being killed) means that getting the first hit in means EVERYTHING.

Overwatch would be way too powerful in this game, even if you add negative modifiers for doing overwatch shooting, it will still be far too powerful and makes for a dull game, as has been proven countless times in other games.

Not trying to rag on you or anything, I realize you're just trying to help the game, so I hope I didn't come off as insulting. :grin:

Well, as I'm not sure how the game mechanics of it work in the other games, I don't have a comparison on how to make MW work better with the option than said other games. But, it seems to me that the limited number of actions negates the aim/artillery combo. If you can only shoot with one artillery and give two units an aim/wait order, you would first have to place two appropriate units in strategic positions for them both to cover the entire width of the field. And since said units must have a legitimate target for the aim action, other units can move upfield without drawing fire.

Likewise, you can also use your artillery to flush said aiming units. Remember, you have the same options as your opponent in army construction, limited by collections of course.

Let's say you're facing an opponent that placed two DI Schmitts in such a way to block the entire width of the field. That's only two of your figures they are "aiming" at, and even if you can't move those two figures into range, you surely have more than two figures in your army. The DI's target your VTOL and Mech? Move in an infantry formation. Now, those DIs have an action token from the Aim order that didn't do anything, so they must push to whack that formation, and you probably didn't do anything with your VTOL and Mech.

By making the Aim order require a target unit and not a target area, it takes a lot of the turtle out of it. It takes a lot of the power out of it. Like I said, it's a minor foil to VTOL, because it effectively let's you lock down a VTOL in a way. It doesn't make the unit with the order unassailable or unapproachable in any way. It just let's them point to one enemy and say, "I got your number, buddy."

Wait intellectual and it is 3am? good luck. It is 3am here now, and the only intellectual thing I care for is beyond me... What was that intellectual thing anyway? I think... No I don't think... Forget it.

But the thing is, your opponent doesn't need to do more than put 2 units on overwatch, 1 against your VTOL, the other against your Mech, therefore preventing those 2 units from advancing. Now he uses his final order to place artillery tokens on 3 of your units, 2 of which are most likely your mech and VTOL.

Now this forces you to move your mech and your VTOL, but neither can move into positions to attack your opponent as they are being targeted by overwatch. So you'll end up dancing your units around uselessly, possibly being forced into pushing your VTOL or mech too much to the point where they are vulnerable.

The only way to stop this is by the non-targeted units (most likely infantry) moving up and basing the overwatch units, but they'll be forced to be pushed by the artillery as well. This can be helped a little by moving up more than 1 non-targeted unit, but this means 1 of your units targeted by artillery will be hit.

This most definitely promotes turtling. It does help counter VTOLs somewhat as you say, perhaps too much, but I disagree completely if you're saying it won't promote turtling.

In a turn based strategy game, being able to shoot at your opponent during his turn once he moves into your range has ALWAYS promoted defensive (almost inactive) strategies. I am absolutely confident that without serious nerfing to overwatch shooting (so much so that it's probably not even worth it) it will be far too powerful, especially the way artillery works in this game.

The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. While it's not a good idea to make an army of DIs or Marksman to team up with the SS AA just to take advantage of such a rule, there are plenty of figures like the HL Regulator II just itching for such a thing. 2 Regulators and an SS AA is only 140 points, leaving you with 160 points worth of harassers to cover your three turtle figs from basing, and I'm sure other more strategic minded army builders could come up with something even more viscous at a much more reasonable time of the day. (Dang night shift.)

The only counter I could come up with to make it a viable consideration is having both attacks happen simultaneously. Ie, VTOL comes into range to shoot, aiming unit fires back. Both hit and damage at the same time. But that still allows two aiming Regulators to control the middle of the field while an artillery unit lobs from the utmost safety. Realistic? Most definitely. Fun? Not really. Not when there are borders to the game field. No edges would make it more viable, as flanking strategies would be an option, but not on a 36" square field.

We'll see what the day brings in the way of advice from people that don't keep the wee hours you and I do First-and-Only. And until then, thanks for intelligent and constructive posts. :cool:

We already "Aim". One is a unit and one is a secial equipment item. The unit is called Artillery. The SEC calls it "Improved Targeting".

Overwatch, as has been so accurately pointed out above, is a very difficult nut to crack, rules-wise. While the tactic is sound, in practice you end up causing the game to slow to a crawl as people move and/or anticipate attacks during movement. Huge rows can ensue as Player 1 argues that he didn't move unit X via a path that would allow for an attack, and Player 2 says he did.

Personally, I'd avoid it if only for the trouble it would cause.

One another note, I have been tossing around a House Rule called Aiming. Basically it helps boost units with a low attack value. The basic wording goes like this:

AIMING
When a unit makes a range combat attack, the controlling player may choose to do an aimed ranged attack. This must be declared before the player roles his dice. A player making a ranged combat attack may transfer points of damage from his damage value to his attack value. A player may not transfer for than 3 points to his attack value, and may not take his damage value below 1.

For an example, let's take the BR Joust Tank on it's starting click.

Damage = 3 Energy
Attack = 8

The controlling player is trying to hit a unit in hindering with a modified defense of 23. For sake of argument, let's say the target is a 'Mech and running high on heat. The controlling player may transfer 1 or 2 points of damage to his targeting, thus:

Damage = 2 Energy
Attack = 9

or

Damage = 1 Energy
Attack = 10

While this does not guarantee a hit on the target, it does raises the chance of rolling to hit. Also, if there is a critical hit, the player (having already declared an aimed attack) uses his modified damage value.

While I have not had a chance to totally playtest this idea, it does prove sound. It gives smaller units a chance to damage the big bruiser 'Mechs, but at a reduced damage value. Certain restrictions like the armor SE of the target and whether or not the attacking unit has pulse we still have to work out. I would appreciate any constructive comments you all might have.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I thought it best to keep it under "aiming"

I was thinking along the lines of keeping the normal attack as the aimed shot. Then give all vehicles (including vtols) and mechs a move/shoot order:

-2 attack
1/2 move (round down)

I am going to play this with a couple of extra rules:

charge - uses fist damage +1, Heavy and hard armor block
run - +4 move ipo 2x
Artillery - uses normal rules to divide damage b4 rolling drift
Transports - move 0 when load or unload.

Hopefully, these rules will encourage more shooting and less bumper action and still make attacking the thing to do.

Jason in Ohio: That would actually appear to be a viable system for doing "Aiming." However, while it's a great method, it kind of goes against the "fluff" for the weapons and it's a little difficult to justify a "well placed" shot doing less damage.