I have basic game fixes here. I have thought of these all, and would like your input on these all. I tried to follow the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) theory in order to change the game as little as possible.

I am typing these as they would be worded as a rule in the FAQ or in the rulebook.

I also believe that the Chaos Theory says that small changes make a large difference as it trickles down.

Tank Drop fix

Transports may only carry infantry units. All infantry units are considered to be inside the transport, and placed in regular transport shells. Capacity 3 transports may instead TOW a vehicle based unit that has the word TOWED in the name. this unit is external, and still subject to attack and damage. The TOWED unit may not fire while being towed behind the transport. If the TOWED unit is an artillery piece, use the numbers on the artillery token to resolve the attack. The TOWED units keeps its armor, but does not gain bonus from EVADE Special Equipment or DECOY Special Equipment.

Artillery fix

Artillery Tokens (pogs) no longer stack damage.

VTOL fix

Any unit that is a VTOL no longer uses movement points to fire. The VTOL must make an attack order in order to fire its weapon. The VTOL still uses its movement for moving, and requires a move order to move. VTOLS may only be subject to one order per turn.

In laymans terms, VTOLS may no longer Move and Shoot.

Any VTOL that fails a break away order is unable to move or change elevation.

Charge fix.

A mech may recieve a charge order. The mech moves at 1.5 times its movement, and deals primary damage to the target on a successful charge. The charging Mech takes 2 clicks of damage regardless if the charge is successful or fails. The target of the charge gains a +2 to its defense for the charge. Charging does not automatically bypass the bonus of Heavy or Hardened armor.



Now my fixes i thought would change things in the game to make things easier. Let me know what you think. Please discuss the merits of these ideas. I realize people are not going to like everything on here, but i feel it will make the game more fun in the long run.

With the decrease in damage (as opposed to how charge works now) and range and the increased damge done to yourself, I don't think that you need the added +2 bonus to defense. But that is just my opinion. As to VTOLs, while I don't like the way they are right now, I'm not sure that the elimination of move/shoot makes them a viable unit. I would rather see an increase to the movement points it takes to shoot (say 14 or 16 instead of the 12 it is now) and an elimination of the +1 defence while at cruising. Other than that I will give it a try and report my findings...

Forgot one thing.

Improved Targeting

Improved Targeting may not be used to roll out of a Critical Miss.
Improved Targeting may not be used to roll into a Critical Hit.
Improved Targeting may not be used during a Capture Attempt.

I'd say that I'd actually agree with all of the suggestions except for Improved Targetting... I'd say that IT should be allowed to attempt a roll out of a critical miss. But the other two items should still apply. Great ideas, man :)

I had such high hopes when you said KISS. Then you didn't.

Tank drop - Having a movement of 0 should not give an advantage over having a movement of >0. Yet this is exactly what you have just implemented. These rules allow 0-move vehicles to have a move-shoot or shoot-move option, but not vehciles with even the slightest amount of movement. That is just unbalanced.

Also, you make the same mistake that so many other people make. You are making rules to fix something (that personally I feel isn't broken) based on how current pieces look without considering what future pieces may look like. What is to stop a future piece from being called a DI Towed Schmitt and have almost exactly the same stats as a Schmitt (heck, possibly even a movement speed)? Tank-drop gets brought back. And don't forget, you didn't even write towing rules. They don't innately exist. This rule is far from simple and basically just a bad rule.

Artillery - Yep, simple. Good? I'm leaning that way, but the jury is still out and until a little playtesting is done, I'm not going to just take someone's word for it.

VTOLs - <sigh> Without move and shoot, these are some of the worst units in the game. For starters, these units pay a LOT of points for their move-shoot capabilities. Compare them to similarly priced units and note that they tend to do less damage, have lower defenses, and a LOT less clicks of life. Oh, 3 of the 4 sprints would still be useful, but that is about it. As for the breaking part of the rule, it might have some value, but I'm not quite sure.

Charge - You call that simple?! That is one of the more complex set of fixes I have seen for charge yet. One of the multiple changes you implemented might be simple. But all of them combined most definitely is not. The rule isn't simple and it isn't balanced. Most mechs pay for an attack value on their dials while in salvage. Mechs can only make ONE type of attack while salvaged: a charge. Dropping the damage down to primary means that the mechs can't do damage and have paid points for useless attack values. This makes most mechs overcosted. As for the rest of the charge rules, combine them and they completely destroy the mechanic. It becomes an almost completely useless mechanic. Removing a tactic from the game is never a good way to improve the game.

Improved Targeting - Ummm, read the SE. You currently CANNOT roll IT to get a critical hit. That is the current rule. Besides that, IT is an expensive SE that mathematically only increases the attack value by about 1.5 pts (but costs more than that). The ability to roll out of a critical miss is the main reason. Removing that makes it an overcosted SE. As for capturing, I can see why you don't like it, but it is a serious misconception on most people's part as to how much IT actually helps. Mathematically, it isn't that astounding.

-SYB

it is actually harder than you thnk to attempt to fix the game, cover the angles, and keep it simple.

you know, as I think about it, you are right. I guess now I would word it something like this

Transport Vehicles may only carry infantry base units.

[quote]Also, you make the same mistake that so many other people make. You are making rules to fix something (that personally I feel isn't broken) based on how current pieces look without considering what future pieces may look like. What is to stop a future piece from being called a DI Towed Schmitt and have almost exactly the same stats as a Schmitt (heck, possibly even a movement speed)? Tank-drop gets brought back. And don't forget, you didn't even write towing rules. They don't innately exist. This rule is far from simple and basically just a bad rule. [/quote[

everyone is entitled to their own mistakes every now and again.

good for you on not taking anyone elses word. however, i think this would make the most sense for the artillery units. it spreads the damage out more, so you have to be more careful where you place your pogs.

actually, i think it should be workeded like this.

Artillery Tokens (Pogs) from the same artillery piece do not stack.

actually, i think they would still be a viable tank. the SS balac has a 16" range. the SC Donar has a 14" range. not only that, but lets take SC for example

SC 40 point tanks
Demon
Joust

SC 60 point tanks
Etan Novacat
Donar

SC 90 point tanks
Behemoth
Dekker Nove Cat

right now without exception, when it falls inot that 60 point category, everyone is taking the Donar. if you actually line those units up, and look at them down the line, I know I can see how a DOnar is worth 60 points without the move and shoot capability.

I just thought that the way it is used now is not how the mechanic was designed. then could you suggest a way to fix it?

I know IT cannot be currently used to roll into a critical hit. i wrote that up there to show it still involved. I think IT should not be able to be used in capture attempts or rolling out of a critical miss. I know the math is small, but in my opinion it works.

I am listening to your words, and I appreciate the input. in a couple days, I will repost with the changes discussed in this thread.

everyone, please keep commenting, and if you playtest theser ideas, let me know how they turn out.

Xman-

I'll keep this post to VTOLs only. I want to see if I can convince you that VTOLs really do pay for the move-shoot option. First, I don't want to compare Etan to the SC Donar because Etan is a gimmick piece (and thus really hard to do in a comparison).

But, let's start with comparing the Donar to Mikel Nova Cat.

Mikel costs 50pts and the Donar costs 60pts
Mikel has a 4/14 range at 90 arc
Donar has 0/14 range at 135 arc

At the starting click, Mikel does 4AP damage, moves 10, attacks at a 9, and has an 18 defense.
Donar does 3 energy, moves 16, attacks at a 9, and has a 21 (in the air) defense with heavy armor.

Looks about even so far (though at a 10pt differential I would expect the Donar to look noticably better).

Click 2 - Mikel loses 1 speed and 1 attack. The Donar loses 1 attack and 1 defense.
Click 3 - Mikel lose 1 damage, 1 speed, 1 defense. The Donar loses 1 speed, 1 defense.
Click 4 - Mikel loses 1 speed, 1 attack. The Donar loses 1 damage, 1 speed, 2 attack, 1 defense, the armor SE and hits a repair click.
Click 5 - Mikel loses nothing. Donar loses 2 speed, 1 attack, 1 defense.

These last two clicks were horrendous for the Donar. At this point Mikel is superior or equal in all stats except for speed. The Donar still moves 12 while Mikel moves 7.

Click 6 - Mikel loses 1 damage, AP SE, 1 speed, 1 attack, and 1 defense. Donar loses 1 speed, 1 attack, and 2 defense.

Click 7 - Mikel salvages (loses all damage) and loses 1 defense. Donar salvages (loses all damage), loses 3 speed, and loses all attack.

At this point, Mikel can ram, but the Donar cannot.

Click 8 - Mikel lose 1 speed and 1 defense. Donar loses 2 speed and 1 defense.

Click 9 - Mikel loses 1 attack and 1 speed. Donar loses all speed and 1 attack.

Click 10 - Mikel loses 1 defense. Donar is destroyed.

Click 11 - Mikel is destroyed.

For 10 pts less, it lasts longer, does equal or more damage throughout its life, can do a ram attack, has NO repair markers, has equal or higher attack value throughout its life, and almost all better stats in the last half of its dial.


The even more frightening comparison is the SC Donar to the non-unique SC Tank Destroyer.

TD - 36pts. Donar - 60pts.
TD - 3/10 at 90 arc. Donar - 0/14 at 135 arc.

Click 1 - TD has 3 damage (ballistic), 10 move, 9 attack, 19 defense w/ Reflective SE. Donar has 3 damage (energy), 16 move, 9 attack, 21 defense (in the air) with Heavy Armor SE.

These stats are remarkably close for a 24pt difference.

Click 2 - TD loses 1 attack. Donar loses 1 attack and 1 defense.
Click 3 - TD loses 1 speed and 1 defense. Donar loses 1 speed and 1 defense.
Click 4 - TD loses 1 attack. Donar loses 1 damage, 1 speed, 2 attack, 1 defense and hits a repair marker.

At this point, the 36pt unit is better or equal in all dial stats than the Donar except speed. The donar has a 14, while the TD has a 9.

Click 5 - TD loses 1 damage, 1 speed, 1 defense, Reflective SE and hits a repair marker. Donar loses 2 speed, 1 attack, and 1 defense.
Click 6 - TD loses 1 attack and 1 defense. Donar loses 1 speed, 1 attack, and 2 defense.
Click 7 - TD loses 1 speed and 1 defense. Donar salvages (loses all damage), 3 speed, and all attack.
Click 8 - TD salvages (loses all damage), 1 speed, all attack, 1 defense and hits a repair marker. Donar loses 2 speed and 1 defense.

Counting the +1 defense for being in the air, the two units have precisely the same dial stats.

Click 9 - TD loses 1 speed and 1 defense. Donar loses all speed and 1 defense.

Click 10 - TD loses 1 speed and 1 defense. Donar is destroyed.

Click 11 - TD is destroyed.

Again, at 24pts less, the TD has equal or better damage for its entire dial, lives longer, can fight for one click longer, keeps its defensive SE longer, has its first repair click later in the dial, has equal or better attack throughout its dial, and has a mostly better dial for the last half of its life.


I hope this analysis is somewhat convincing.

-SYB

actually SYB, it does help a little. I wish there was just a good way to fix all of these problems in the game without having to majorly revamp the rules.

I do remember one flaw witht hee comparison i did. We did not even click through the units that much, just based it off the starting stats (why, i dunno, prolly because we know most of the units stats).

there are also some other bonuses for VTOLS that you didn't list, but i don't know if they are factored in to the point cost or not.

a VTOL cannot be charged, rammed, or based (at least, at cruising, which is where most people keep them 95+% of the time)

A VTOL gains the elevated bonus to defense

A VTOL can ignore terrain and just move over them and shoot over them.

very nice analysis by the way.

what do you think should be changed about VTOLS? o rjust leave them the same?