EDIT: Forgive the screwed up title, lol... didn't notice the grammar error until it was too late, lol.

Alright, supposedly we're trying to figure out how to affect charging so that mechs like Arnis Drummond can't be the uber-charging Mech on the field...

So, I'm seeing the most votes in favor of changing charge so that it's only the equivelent of the Mech's standard movement range. Now, yes... true, Arnis will now only be able to charge at 12 inches... but that doesn't actually help you that much, let me show you why:

Your standard "long-range" mech has a 14" range, right? Right. So, Arnis can only charge 12", right? Right.

You move into just BARELY 14" away... so that you can fire. Arnis charges you.

How does this work? okay, from the center of your base to the edge, there is one inch; from the center of Arnis' base to the edge is one inch; He can move 12 inches in addition to that:
12+1+1=14

So, even if charge is disabled by having standard movement, Arnis will STILL be able to slam into people the second they're within weapons range. About the only thing that can hurt him now is a Tank-drop, and even then, he has a 22 defense...

Please take no offense at this rant, it's just that I am getting a little frustrated that more people are voting for the solution that, in my mind, doesn't actually work.

Please comment, and speak up for your feelings on this.

14 > 26 inches

The good thing about such a rule change is that Arnis will be force to enter weapons range b4 he can charge instead of charging out of hyperspace. You can move to weapons range to bear your guns on Arnis, but Arnis can't charge your mech by running round your meat shields that surround the front arc of your mech (assuming of course, your mech can shoot 14 inch).

At least you won't have to surround your 14' with meat, all it takes is one infantry to protect your mech. Somehow when a mech runs through your artilery range and smacks your mech for 5 damage in the rear doesn't feel right.

Interesting points, yeah... minor thing that still bugs me, though... you still have to invest points in meat shields... and in addition to that, with Arnis still able to do the equivelent of a 14" range attack... anything with less than 14" weapons range without full protection is all but STILL screwed... leaving many units still not viable for play... :ermm:

A defensive bonus of +2 or +3 when the charger does not have clear 'Path of Attack' is better. Then I can throw my Ceasar Spano in between my opponent's Arnis and my J. Tadaka (or have intervening terrain) and he has a harder time hitting her from his 24 inches away. May force Arnis to come closer (into ranged combat distance hopefully) to get his optimal clear Path of Attack.

Well, personally I'd rather just see a +2 defense no matter what the circumstances are, with LOS required... :ermm:

@joedj: It's an interesting idea, but in a 450/3 game, wasting an order just to keep a craptastic vehicle between you and Arnis is... a pretty big waste. Just my first thought, other than that, I'd like it. :)

Cesar spano is craptastic? You obviously have never placed terrain correctly to highlight his strengths and diminish his weakness'.

ok let me tell you something about tank drop

today i just got my arnis shot by tank drop for 5 dmg :)

and it only need 11 to hit *11 attack* and it got improve targeting so.. beating 22 is not big deal :)

i can't wait till they legalize 450 pts

and i would like to try this :
arnis + tank drop + vtol and infiltrate
*all chesse roll into one big ball of chesse* want to see what kind of dammage i could do :)

Holy... crud... that's just not right, LOL

@Zhi - Wasn't just referring to Cesar, was just talking about using a unit specifically there just to stand in the way, lol :) Meant no offense, sorry... :(

lol i won't use it for prize or stuff just want to try with friend what kind of chaos i made :)


sometime i don't have the heart to do it for prizes among friend but for fun playtest if ok :)

Changing charge to just standard movement would not eliminate the threat of charge but it would help fix the problem so it could be dealt with using strategy. When this game first came out there were still mechs who could charge for 22" effectively however these mechs would usually only ever do 3-4 clicks of damage and need a 10 or better to hit. Now there are so many mechs that can charge 18-26" with 11 attacks and hit for 5-6 clicks of damage. It used to be that there were effective counters to charging and I believe that changing charge to standard movement would allow those counters to be effective once again while keeping the usefulness of charging.

Oh for crying out loud. If charge is nerfed by making it a standard movement, be prepared for the DF Maxim, DF Di Schmitt Smackdown every single f'n tournament. There would be no reason to play mechs and everyone would be #####ing about how stupid Wizkids is when it's whiny people like you who caused the problem in the first place.

Charge is fine at double movement. It's about the only way to outrange tankdrop. It's a way for a salvaged mech to damage an opponent as well as a decent way of defeating hardened armor. Discussions about trying to change charge SHOULD NOT be discussions about making it a standard movement.

Uh, wonderbread? Go take a look at the polls... what the hell do you think I'm ranting about? I don't LIKE the fact that more people are voting for the change in range on it. And I already SAID that Tank Drop would be the ultimate thing, then, JEEZ. AND BY THE WAY - I feel INSULTED by your remark blaming it on "People like me" - Next time, read what the entire thread is about, before throwing out insults every which way!

Personally, I just think the +2 defense would be best, because it would make things a lot smoother in gameplay.

1. Not only does tank drop with it's 22-24 inch range have a clear advantage over mechs limited to charging their full movement (i.e. 11 IT vs 22,23 defense is >50%), mechs would be at a disadvantage in terms of their offensive range versus VTOLs and vehicles. With most mechs having a 10 to 12 inch charge or range combat range, play strategy would most likely devolve into running into base to avoid being shot by VTOLs and vehicles. This I believe would overvalue their points.

2. Mechs in Mechwarrior DA are played primarily for their charge ability. It is the nature of the game. To change the charge component without compensating for it would worsen the game.
Imagine if infantry became chargeable. Or VTOLs could not move and shoot. Or vehicles could not shoot after being deployed from a transport. Each change would have significant ramifications on the game dynamic but no simple solution exists once the change is made. I disagree with making MW:DA a more restrictive game. I believe the current model of evolving game play that Wizkids uses works. They add a game dynamic with each set, have a couple of power pieces, and cancel them out with the following set. This way they keep the game fresh and interesting.