Ok ... WK has released the changes to charge. And by now I'm sure a lotta people have given it a try to see how it works.

The questions I pose to you are simple.

1. Has gameplay changed at all as a result of this rule? (i.e. are people charging less, or picking different mechs to use as a result)

2. Are the results of charges much (if any) different than before? (i.e. are charging units destroyed more often now due to the extra damage they take. etc)

3. In your opinion was the change sufficient?

Please do NOT turn this in to a flame war. Only post if you are going to contribute to the discussion ... and preferably those people who have actually played with the rules to test them out.

P.S. Drag .. any chance of some sorta official poll?

So far, so good.

It maybe too early to tell definitively. Wait until its tournament legal and the new CA mechs hit the fan. High attack and high speed values with little agility may make charging simply irresistable.

BR mechs just got alot better. I see folks dusting off that old legonaire.

we played with the new rules at my venue last weekend and no body charged not even the normal BR player that charges all the time... So to me the charge rule change was enough of a fix till some new uber unit comes along... we saw lots of ranged combat, and no tank drops... but I think the only way to beat the new SC 16" mechs is to do a tank drop so you get first shot.... sorry to have to say that... it is just to hare to tie the mech up with infantry to get time to get close enough to make a shot... arty works on them but one or two clicks is not much damage to worry about...

Umm those SC 16" range mechs aren't that good really. The shockwave simply sucks with it's 20 defense and low damage, the Marauder is unbelivably vulnerable to infantry as it is not capable of doing more than 4 damage to basing infantry with one attack, which is not enough to kill most battle armors, and a mech of that cost should be able to do that, the sun cobra is even MORE vulnerable to infantry as it can't do more than 2 damage to basing infantry, and has low defense without even the armor that the shockwave has, Zabiha Nostra's Thunderbolt is the only one of those four that I might consider using, though that only is for most parts just weaker (and slightly cheaper) version of Marat Deleportas, although it has good range but it is awfully slow. But still, it is definetily the best of the four. And remember none of them if I remember correctly has over 10 attack, and their longer range at most means that they get to shoot first, but they still need to hit, and most slow mechs have good enough defense to make it not guaranteed, and most fast mechs can get off of their front arc while closing in to also avoid getting hit.

As much as I want to say it's not enough, I'll have to wait and see. With the introduction of new units and rules, I figure it'll take a few months to really know for sure.

Charge fixed quite a lot of the still few problems still around the mech, now if only ArP (and other abilities) do not work on a artillery attack :)

It's fine. Nothing more needs to be "fixed", especially not tankdrop which seems to be the new whining point of realmsers.

I guess I will answer my own post.

1. So far I have seen some changes. I have seen fewer of Arnis but more of the BR Lego. I suppose that is partly from the elimination of first-turn immunity as well. But all in all I have not seen any real reduction in the number of times charge is done. I have seen few from the larger mechs (Cylde). But ones like Arnis and Lego appear unaffected. However I have not seen this in action with the new units so I will have to see how this may change later this month.

2. I have seen little change here. Yes the charger has taken more. But unless he gets an unlucky break role he still manages to get back to his lines and get repaired. 2 damage to the light-weight chargers (Lego, Arnis, and the like) is just not enough unless the unit is loaded with repair markers (which most popular chargers are not). They charge ... and hit or miss, usually will either stick around to finish off the stricken target .. or flee to the back lines and get repaired and then try again.

3. Was it sufficient? I will wait until the end of the month to answer that one. If Counterassault didn't exist .. then from the standpoint of the current units I would say probably no it is not really sufficient. But that's just me.

I saw the br lego in a game few days ago, also br phoenix hawk in the same game. the phoenix hawk charged my Marat Deleportas, missed, and was melted by 6 damage energy attack from Marat right my next turn. During this time the lego was busy getting repaired after taking 8 damage in one turn from Marat + an infantry formation, and while it managed to repair 5 damage once, after that the repair vehicle was taken out by some air cavalry and the lego was beaten to submission by a battle armor and the sc le Lamprey. :) He did try to charge Marat once more after the lego was salvage but predictably missed and shut down to boot and was finished off by a Gray Death battle armor shooting it to the back. :) I admit though that the guy had hideous dice rolls that game, especially seemed that no matter what he did, he couldn't hit Marat. This included formations of 3 srm teams, the phoenix hawks charge with 11 attack, etc. He only ever hit Marat once during the whole game and that was with a formation of some kages and some other battle armor that can't remember right now which only did one damage through his heavy armor. And Marat managed to do 1 damage to himself with a critical miss lol. He did hit everything else I had quite well, just couldn't hit the Sphinx.

I still charge.

I used the BR Lego in my games this week. I have been running BR pure armies for the last couple of months and had not used him for some time.

Seems like people are discounting charge, so if you actually charge, it takes them by surprise. Several opponants were shocked when I charged. They were even more shocked when I did 6 damage and only took 2.

I do not think that the change was enough. You can still scrap a mech or vehicle with a charge. The damage done was not lessened, nor was the chance that a charge would be successful.

Well I am not scared about the BR lego since it has only 9 attack. Any mech I am likely to play in 450 point games will have at least 22 defense and I would consider someone charging when he needs 13+ to hit completely out of his mind, unless it would be some kind of desperate last ditch effort. Note though that doesn't mean that I am discounting charge and am not prepared to it. The fact alone of bringing high defense mechs is already good preparing for charge. As well as how you place your units etc. I have so far really never had much problems with charge.

someone said declean sucks lol haha good stuff, no butseriously he got jumped on my infantry and it did make me mad yes but saying he isnt that good, is just um dumb? anyways charge has affected me a lot personally, i dont charge anymore, i use more artilery and more bigger mechs!

I have not played the new charge rules so I don't know for sure that they are not enough, but as TenExs said, just because they take an extra one or maybe two damage as the charger, it doesn't change the fact that it was just as easy as before to turn the chargee to scrap.

My opinion on the matter of special attacks is as the damage gets adjusted, so should the target number. On DFA you get +2 damage, but you also have to deal with a +2 to hit. It stands to reason that on a charge if you get +1 damage, you should have a +1 to hit. Either take away the +1 damage, or give the target a +1 to their defense. In my opinion, this, coupled with the new rule, would put charge where it needs to be.

This is very true. If it were not for CA, then I'd say there will be little overall affect. Chargemonkeys are still chargemonkeys.

Many of the CA mechs retain good attack values even after five clicks. Now, they only need a 21 to hit MR. DRUMMOND after charging and need to do only 3 clicks to hit the repair marker. While nothing in this catfight is certain, many of the new mechs have a 50/50 chance of roasting DRUMMOND after a charge.

The impact is the worst for the big fellas. Just when people thought it was safe to use them again, WK effectively strips them of their charge option.

We need to wait and see what CA brings.

I suppose we could look at it this way. How many of you would feel safe now in fielding a mech with a 20 defense (which seemed to be the average defense). If you wouldn't field a 20 defense mech or lower ... is the main reason why because of charge or due to other factors?