On the fourms, whenever a rule alteration is suggested, people are always posting a reminder that wizkids needs to keep the rules simple.

Now, I'm wondering who we're trying to keep these rules simple for? I'm not saying that you should need a degree of some sort to be able to figure out the rules but maybe if wizkids got alittle more complex and in depth, it might fix alot of problems.

Personally, I find that the gaming community tends to attract people of intelligence (myself excluded of course) and even if someone cannot figure out rules for themselves, the people of the MW:DA community are usually friendly enough explain them. Heck, isn't that what the battlemaster is for?

And please don't try and tell me that it's for younger players. Kids are way smarter than most people give them credit for(just ask any parent). The math that they started teaching my grade at grade 9 they were teaching to my little brother in grade 6. By this rate, my kids will probably be learning algebra in Grade 3 or 4.

I know by making the rules more complex, the chance for players to be able to abuse the rules increases but isn't that happening enough allready(if you don't agree with me on that one, why does wizkids update the rules monthly? And even then people always mention some rule clarification that would have liked to have seen!)

Anyways, just a thought.....

The K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Silly) is very useful AND needed guide line. Ever play CBT? Even have the game slow down to a 2 hour discussion ( almost fistfight) to resolve an attack or two. Just because two or more people read a rule differantly.
I mean look at Worlds last year. From what I hear there was VTOL rules that envoys couldn't agree on. Just check some of the threads. For a simple game, many people still can't unload transports corectly.
So we do not need more complex rules. We need the rules we have to have been more thought out.

>>And please don't try and tell me that it's for younger players. Kids are way smarter than most people give them credit for(just ask any parent). The math that they started teaching my grade at grade 9 they were teaching to my little brother in grade 6. By this rate, my kids will probably be learning algebra in Grade 3 or 4.

<<

Weird...when I was 10 years old (a long time ago), my father reluctantly bought me this this "Sub Hunt" game with a "Built in Computer" (LEDs with electronics somewhat below a typical calculator today).

The box said ages "12 and up", and he didn't want to buy it since he figured I wasn't old enough.

Why the age limitation? Part of the game involved plotting two points on a coordinate grid (with crayons) and connecting the dots.

This is what is known as "graphing a line".

I'm now a college mathematics professor...none of my students know how to graph a line, and, after three months of training, about about 2/3rds ever gain this skill.

So, what was considered by corporate America as a skill for 12 year olds, is now college level material (and challenging material at that).

Where is it that you're going that their actually advancing the curriculum to something more appropriate for a given age?

Anyway, having argued for hours about the meaning of "do not remove the token at the end of turn"--the "do not remove" was the confusing part--with three guys in MW, I dunno if I want to risk making things more complicated. Part of the appeal of these games is the fact that a small child can play them reasonably well.

Take care,

Rick

I think it's always a good idea to keep rules and mechanics simple. For all the reasons already stated, it makes sense to implement the simplest rules mods when needed.

Doomboy - Prince Edward Island, Canada. I guess I am just looking at once certian area, For a bunch of dumb inbred hicks(my opinion) I guess we're allright at math. There was no difference between my gade 12 Calculus class and my College Calculus Class. We graphed lines in grade 11.

Others - I didn't mean too complex. Like faction purity with 10%- 20% mercs allowed. Some say that's a complex rule but really, how hard is it to figure out what 10%- 20% is? As for knowing and understanding the rules, that should be the battle master's primary concer since that is why he is the battle master. If he doesn't know, it says in the etiquite rules to roll a D6, Someone calls it high or low. If the roll loses you the match and you find out that you were right after all later, oh well, you'll know for next time, be the bigger man.

Slightly more complex rules just might help solve some of the problems. Nowhere near as complex as CBT, but a little more complexity just might solve some of our problems.

As for educational complexity, my college Calculus is being taught in high school classes. I skipped first semester math because my high school math classes were more advanced. All school subjects I have ever taken are being taught earlier and earlier in life.

That, by far, has to be the funniest thing I have ever heard. College people that take your class, they cannot graph a LINE?! As in, they do not know, and sometimes cannot understand, the standard equation of a simple line (y=mx+b)? That is pathetic! I am sure you will have a troubling time teaching them something learned in 8th grade (those college people :p).

like every CBTer says, this game is just plain simple compared to CBT, and actually the rules aren't complex, they just neecd to be read alot, and carefully, and over again(for some anyway.)

it's not complex, any game you play period that doesn't involve a computer is complex. have you guys ever played Dungeons and Dragons? and by some that is a simple game.

MWDA is simple, and when i first started playing i thought there was alot, just read the rules and talk to friends about it, or play some games and have a BM around you to explain the stuff.

i think it should have a few more rules, but eh, it could be worse, like a 57 point artillery being able to take out any mech at any time...oh wait that happens(sorry very hostile about artillery at times)

but to complain about there being alot of rules... c'mon man just work through it, we're not 8 year olds(dont' mean that offensively to anyone, or the 8 year olds)

Man, I'm 15......I learnd that two freaking years ago....wow...

Believe it Mizerama. My gf is a math teacher at a city high school and the stories she tells me about their math abilities (or lack thereof) is absolutely astounding. It is really scary to know that these people will be running the country in the next 20-30 years. Hmmmm ... maybe Sweden wouldn't be a bad place to go to retire.

I hate to tell you, but less than 10% of the american population goes to college, and less than 5% can even spell calculus (ment to be funny).

Your sample is corrupted. You are looking at your friends, just imagine the people who were not in the advanced math class. That number makes your calculus classes miniscule.

When it comes down to it, keep KISS because they actually have the words Do Not Eat on the tube of preparation H .....

Actually 10% may be a historical figure representing older generations of potential college students, but most studies of high-school seniors indicate greater than 50% enter a post-secondary institution (college) upon graduation. Thus, great dilution of the talent level (or affluence depending upon your perspective) of average college students when compared to years past.

ekarl.

Hate to tell you so, but it just isn't so. They may enter, but most of them don't finish w/ any type of degree.

And I was speaking WORLD WIDE.

I know for a fact from my high school w/ a graduating class of 452, less than 100 went on to graduate from college.

the issue isn't having high school seniors go to college, it is keeping them there to graduate.

Unfortunately most high school seniors have the writing and cognative ability to figure out where the local weed dealer lives, and how to pay him. (I live on a college campus, I know what i"m talking about. ;) )

My current class in the Education department at the local university just had a statistic on the topic of this discussion. For every 100 freshmen high school students, only 17 of them end up with a Bachelors degree or equivalent. Only 75 out of that same 100 end up graduating High School. This is our state, Illinois. Wonderful, isn´t it?

Ugh, maybe I should stay away from this thread. Reading through it makes me depressed.:(