It might just be the fact that it's almost 1am where I am, and that I've been at work for 9 hours (with potentially another 3-4 to go) but I believe I have had an epiphany tonight.

I've been playing mwda for about a year now, having been introduced to the game by a co-worker. During that time I have seen several new sets released, gone through many faq's and rules changes and have seen the coming and going of the cheese of the set armies.

Well, my first forays onto these forums were done so in an effort to either acquire pieces through trade, or to gain insight into the game, as well as new ideas and strategies to use.

Then I got sucked into the "XXX rules are broken". First it was infiltrate and capture, then it was pog stacking and vtol/arty/pog/infantrywarrior. I read all of the rants as well as the well-thought out arguments and believed many of them. Because of this I started off on my own personal crusades to get XXX changed.

Well, to make a long story short, I was thinking about a game I played earlier in the day in which I was teaching a new player how to play. During this mental review of the game, I regained sight of something that seems to have been lost along the way.

My trainee/opponent repeatedly said "I don't care who wins, I just want both of us to have fun". Is that not the attitude that all of us should have when we approach our games?

The rules, as they currently are, allow for people to have fun, friendly games as long as both players hold on to that as the main objective.

Yes, there are powergamers out there that will do whatever they can to win. They will abuse the rules in any way possible. This is a result of that person's mentality, not a reflection of the games. I've said many times about Warhammer 40k that there are no cheesy armies, only cheesy players.

The same applies to mwda. From now on, I refuse to b!tch about supposedly "broken" rules. What I will do is strive to ensure that both my opponent and I enjoy the game, regardless of who wins. If I run into a powergamer who must win at all costs, then I will inform him that this is not how the game should be played and will refuse to play him in that manner.

The venue I play at does not suffer from pogwarrior or vtolwarrior, etc. Until it does I will continue to play within it's friendly, sportsmanlike atmosphere. When and if that changes, then I will play at another venue or at my home with friends.

What we have here is the perfect player. He is to be held up as an example to us all. Thank you for your statement, It has moved me and convinced me to stay in this game, for i was on the verge of leaving.

To all who gripe about rules, or abuse them, look to this individual for guidance for he has figurted out just how to cope with all the #### out there.

rowansl, you rock....*Bang* I salute you!!!!!

problem is, one bad player who ONLY wants to win, will ruin it for all the players who just want to have fun.

Isn't that what a lot of people have been doing?

A broken game allows for such #### to happen. A balanced game prevents this from happening.

I disagree. The people who play 4 ssw arrow iv's are the same individuals who play 3 monoliths or 3 talos in 40k (or any other "cheesy" army for that matter).

Anyways, maybe we should be more focused on promoting fair play and having fun.

That's what the "complainers" have been trying to do by proposing rules fixes. Except here it has been seen as #####ing and whining. Case in point: the recent FAQ on the LE Fulcrum.

Ok, first off, there's a difference between suggesting rules fixes or unit corrections and powergaming.

We all know that WK has crappy QA, so we can expect to see discussions like the one about the le fulcrum.

What I am refering to is the fact that the powergamers will tend to squeeze all of the blood out of the min/max turnip. That is the issue that we as gamers should address.

We need to set the example and show others what is "acceptable" gaming behavior, so to speak.

the problem with any collectable game is that there will always be someone who is going to try to min/max their 'deck' in an effort to be the more powerful player. case in point. i've been out of Magic the Gathering since the time of alliances. i recently dusted off an old deck, and figured i'd play a few 'friendly' games. at the time i built the deck, it was a realy good deck. now, it's sub par because 1, the game has progeessed, and 2, people have had ample time to min/max their decks to the point of no return. everyone wants to be the powerplayer. the same applies for little kids and YuGiOh ... i've yet to see new players enter that game with out doing several months of trading to build the latest and greatest uberdeck...

did anyone realy think that Mechwarrior would be any different?

poor sportsmanship isn't what it coms down to. it's compitition. in order to be competitive, you have to be 'the best' and in order to be 'the best' you have to have the power pieces, or run multiples of good pieces, or play to someones weaknesses... there no point involving stratagy because at this point stratagy becomes second to what pieces your playing.

And again I say that I have enough friends who are interested in the game because it is fun. If I run into the min/max'ing powergamer I'll pack my stuff up, go home and invite my friends over for games.

We might not get the shiny new LE prizes, but we have fun and can always buy them on ebay if we really have to have them.

If enough people did this, then the powergamers would find no place to play and would go away.

too true on that. one reason me and my friends found a way to play classic battletech using the MW-DA mini's. now the powergamers come up to us and beg to play, we looks at each other are like..suuure... not a problem. the ball switches places then. we are the big fish, and they are the krill. :) ever see a powergamer get pissed because you headchoped his arnis Drumond with a 35 ton Panther IIc? ER PPC goodness :)

Arnis BTW is piloting a 45 ton Firemoth MkII (AKA the Dasher II)

I agree with the idea of playing for fun.

I seldom win. But because I 1) play odd or themed armies with strange tactics and 2) I ALWAYS have a great time, even if I get massacred , I get the fellowship prize more often than not.

Having played the game for quite some time, I noticed a trend at the venues I play. For unsupported events, there is a core group of people who show and play to have fun. For prize supported events, there are a few Competitive Morons (CMs) that hop from venue to venue, trying to take as many LEs as possible. These are the folks that are the worst of the worst as far as what is complained about on these threads.

If you have these players, do what one of our venues did. We had a core of 6 players, and there were 2 CMs who came only for prizes. If they showed up for the prize support, the 6 of us handled them. We got together and determined who wanted which prize. Then those who didn't want the prize played poorly- pushed mechs to shutdown, pushed units to death, allowed lots of VC3 to be taken against them, etc.

The point totals for the winners were so high, even losing to the CM didn't lower them too much. And then we would vote for fellowship, and it never went to the CM.

Three times, and he stopped showing up.

A lesson.

Well competative play is competative play. I don't mind somebody bringing an uber army to a tournament. Thats the whole idea. Make your best army and take your shot.

Making value judgements about your opponents force is irrelavent. Everybody's definition of cheese is different. I would take offense at someone lecturing me on the content of my army or how to play the game. As long as a players not cheating, he's OK by me.

If players want a different style of game, they SHOULD press WK for rules changes. This is our right as consumers.

I like the the idea of faction purity. It actually adds variety to the game which is lacking from most competative armies these days. But there are many good ideas floating around these boards.

I have changed my view recently on this. I had been pretty vocal on fixing the rules as they currently stand. My intent was to put the Mechs back in Mechwarrior, and most of all to have a good time. And I have mentioned having 'fun' in other threads, so it shouldn't come as a surprise here. As the venues near me appear to condone the power approach, I have chosen the 'play at home' option. Simply put, a collection of players have decided that the fun they had originally in MW:DA was more important than the metagame, and use self imposed limits on army builds and on certain tactics. (If you DO, say, try to put out a double Schmitt-drop or 4 Arrows, then we make you sit in the corner and you can't have any beer.) :) After dabbling briefly with house rules, we also found that the current rules, used without lawyering or abusive, illogical practices are still usable. It also causes less confusion if you play someone from outside your circle, no 'what the heck was that!?' incidents when you, by reflex, 'house-rule' a move to an uninformed opponent. oops. I have decided to go with the flow on WK rules right now. As long as I know some players who, first and foremost, want fun, rather than to massacre all comers through a seemingly legal, but obvious abuse, I will stay, I will play. The simplest rule to make this game fun is an unwritten one- 'just say no.'

I agree about playing more for fun than anything else. I personally don't even have the coveted 'power pieces'. And wheen I play, silly armies with ridiculous strategies appear... doesn't matter if it's a casual game or tourney. I just wanna see mechs fight and silly things happen...
e.g. Seeing how many times you can make Erin Johnston blow up....hilarious!!! Especially when she DOESN'T and wipes out the enemy.....

If not for the great bunch of folks who play in my area, i may have never come to play MWDA. We all play Faction pure w/ mercs and have a great time, when it comes to tournaments in our local venue/s we again play faction pure, and have alot of fun.

Rowansl, i believe fellowship prizes were made with you in mind!