i was talking with an old time CBT buff friend of mine today, discussing the various jade falcon units, seafox units and their regiments.. something interesting got blasted back at at me in total shock

does anyone realize that one of the regiments for the sea fox is for the IlKan himself? thus making Clan Seafox the IlClan? this is a rather -IMPORTANT- revilation to me

it seems that after a bit of research, Devlin stone went into seclusion 2 years ago fluff wise. here were two years later acording to the fluff, and we have an incursion by Jade Falcon

now.. this is the interesting part. my friend surmises that the HGP grid black out is caiused by the main streem clans. Seafox inparticular because it fits their 'Merchant' mindset. they would be the most likely of the clans to learn and utilize -anything- they would learn tacticly from the inner sphere. combine this with the fact that one of the regimental names is an old and seldom used title for the very cluster that IlKan himself is is... and you have a failr good posability that the IlKhan himself is going to be appearing -very soon- why is this? because this particular regiment is suposed to be the honor guard/body guard of the IlKhan.

now. what does this all mean? it means:

1) the very first agressors were the Steel Wolves, and the Spirit Cats. they were the -first- of the representive clans in the sphere to go on the agression. yes, they are only splinter factions. but then, if you know your fluff... so was Wolves Dragoon's. they were the 'eyes and ears' of Clan Wolf shortly before the first Clan invasion in the 3050's

2) it would take aproxamately 2-3 years to marshal all the clans forces, select a -new- IlKhan, and set plans in motion. that time has come and pass. we have devlin stone going into seclusion. we have the HGP grin black out, we have the agressors on the move. now suddenly we have the appearance of -TWO- full fledged clans in the inner sphere.

ok, i've set things down as clearly as i can. what does it all mean however? it means that with the disapearance of Devlin Stone that the main stream clans viewed the REpublic of the Sphere a a sign of weakness in the inner sphere. it means that they viewed it's very formation as an insult to the old Star League. it means that they caused the HGP Blackout, and are now making their boldest move since the 3050's.

Clan Jade Falcon technicly still believes they won their trials that would have prevented them from trying to invade. Clan Seafox is a 'Merchant' Clan, and thus would be more inclined to utilize any and all tactics that would garner the most profit. what profits a merchant the most? War. ---> HGP black out --> factions start old rivalries ---> wars break out ---> everyone is distracted fighting each other.

it's a -PRIME- opretunity for an attack. if SeaFox -is- using things it learned from the innersphere, watching, observing.. then they are leading a major major incursion

i think, going by what my friend discribed to me in no uncertain terms we are looking at a SECOND Clan Invasion.

The regiment is the Ilkhanate, most likely the leader khanate of CSF's khanates, or the knanate of the CSF khan.

that is precisely what i was pointing to.. IlKhanate is from what my friend told me an aboscure and seldom used title for the cluster that the Ilkhan is in. if a clan has this cluster within it, this makes that Clan the 'IlClan'.

the IlKhan is the apointed leader of all the various SaKhans.

a SaKhan is the leader of an individual Clan.

bread crumbs.. now we follow the trail....

Actually, it was Dragons Fury against Highlanders was the first aggression. After that, though was Steel Wolves, and then the next month was Spirit Cats.

One Sea Fox unit is listed as having its regiment(for MWDA terms), as "ilKhanate", which, last I recall, was the old, formal term rarely used for the ilKhan's Keshik.

The other Tiburon is listed as both Khanate, and Emerald Skate Trinary. Both of those are linked to the Sea Fox Khan.

Devlin Stone went into seclusion as a Once and Future King type person in 3130. The HPG Network went down across the Inner Sphere in 3132. The current game year is 3134.

So, figure 1 year to select a new ilKhan, 1 year to get things set up with Spirit Cats and Steel Wolves and for trials to see who gets to invade, 1 year to get forces ready, 1 year to travel from the Kerensky Cluster to here.

Add to this the fact that all Clan Warships have HPG generators, and that Clans do not use just Jumpships to move their troops, and you see one huge advantage for Clans in a situation where they could communicate, but the Republic cannot.

I do not think that they so much saw the republic as an insult to the Star League, so much as they either a) took offense at Devlin Stone selecting a successor the way he did, or b) there had been some sort of secret arrangement made with the Clans and the Star League, and that Stone's retirement was the end of the arrangement.

Either way, given that, technically, a Clan cannot change names, but it can create a new Clan, and assign all the warriors fromt eh Old Clan to that, that means that Sea Fox is not Diamond Shark, and thus is not bound by the Great Refusal. Nor, infact, are any of the Clans that did not fight in it. Jade Falcons, having won their Trial, are able to attack the Inner Sphere. Of course, as the new Star League no longer exists, the Clans really are pretty much free to attack.

Next comes the fact that Sea Fox has never really fought the most honourably, and that the Clans had developed a covert operatons organization called The Watch, based on Wolf's Dragoons covert operations, which were quite good at doing things like..sabotaging HPG generators, and infiltrating *ANYTHING*, indicates they had the capability to infiltrate Comstar.

These things to me indicate there is a *STRONG POSSIBILITY* that we might be about to see a Second CLan Invasion, especially with Steel Wolves within striking distance of Terra.

@SaoShaoLiuMei: you took long enough posting :P

i've been struggling to recall details ....

Um..Arcanix..let me correct something in your terminology..

Each Clan has a Khan, who is the commander of the whole Clan, military and Civilian. the saKhan is the Second in Command of the Clan.

The Ground Council elects, during times of crisis or for situations involving the Clans as a whole(such as teh development of Omni-mech technology, the Invasion, reconstruction following the inner sphers attacks), from the Khans on the Grand Council, one Khan to be the Leader of all Khans for the duration of the conflict, or until he/she is killed in battle. This selected Khan is the ilKhan, and his/her Clan gains extra prestige for being the ilClan. Generally, the saKhan takes over the Khan Duties for the Clan, while the ilKhan focuses on everything else.

The reason refering to something as the ilKhanate is so obscure is that the ilKhan *RARELY* fights on the ground. Generally, they sit (relatively)safe on a warship. the use of ilKhanate for a Cluster means that this is an ilKhan who is actually leading from the field...something not done since the first ilKhan, Founder Nicholas Kerensky.

@SaoShaoLiuMei: DOH!! .. i stand corrected...

Actually, isnt ilClan the name given to the Clan that takes Terra??

In one of Fasa's 'revisions', it was changed, as I know that when Lincoln Osis was the ilKhan, Smoke Jaguars were refered to as the ilClan. Regardless of whetherthe use of the term was an author making a mistake, or a Fasa Revision, still, the Clan of the ilKhan does have a little more Prestige among the other Clans..and more is expected of it because of that.

yea that's what I thought too Phantom. Though a Clan gains prestiege from its Khan being elected ilKhan, that clan doesn't become "ilClan" or leader of all clans (just look at what happened during the great refusal, half the clans basically told Lincon Osis to stuff it when he asked them to help turn back the SLDF forces that were pasting his people.)

No clan can rightfully claim the title iLClan till they take Terra, which was the reason Anastasia Kerensky took the Steel Wolves there and attacked. Heck, I'm not even sure what could be left of the Council considering this Clan Civil War I keep hearing about so any claims of a iLKhan seem a little bogus to me right now.

Well..remember...the Inner Sphere thought the Ghost Bears had a Civil War when they changed from Crusader to Warden..when it was fought pretty much like a family quarrel with mechs. The Inner Sphere does not understand how the Clans think, and all our information is filtered through Spheroid Eyes. Clans do not have Civil Wars...they have Trials. So, it might have been a major Trial, that, to an in-expert Inner Sphere observer would have seemed like a full scale Civil War..but..I do not think they Clans were left with rifts like we would think of with a Civil War..I think that it was a major Trial of Refusal on the Great Refusal, with the Warden Clans counting as defending the Inner Sphere.

ilClan is the title that the Crusaders (and most of the other Clans) agreed to give the Clan that took Terra, making that Clan the first among equals and their senior Khan to be ilKhan in perpetuity.
And, for the Clans bound by the Great Refusal, here is a list: Clan Wolf, Clan Blood Spirit, Clan Ice Hellion, Clan Hell's Horses, Clan Fire Mandrill, Clan Smoke Jaguar, and Clan Star Adder. A who's who of the Crusader Clans, excepting Clan Jade Falcon (who won). Clan Ghost Bear, Wolf-in-Exile, &c. are NOT bound by the Great Refusal, and that includes Clan Sea Fox/Diamond Shark. And Clans are allowed to change names, as occured when Clan Diamond Shark changed its name from Clan Sea Fox to Clan Diamond Shark. But, as Clan Diamond Shark did not engage in the Great Refusal, they are not bound by it, as previously mentioned.
I doubt it was the Sea Foxes. They are, afterall, merchants. And for everyone who thinks the Watch was good, must be setting a pretty low bar for what constitutes "good". Now, after sixty-odd years, the Watch might be almost as good as other intelligence agencies operating in the Inner Sphere, but still not quite on a par with the worst. This is simply because everything a Clanner is raised to believe in is diametrically opposed to the life and duties of an organization of secrecy and espionage. If Clanners try to pull a fast one on you, it will generally be where you can see it.
Oh, while everyone was mentioning about a sword being the symbol of the Federated Suns, it is also the symbol of the Word of Blake. (This is in reference to the sightings of battle armored infantry around several stricken ComStar HPGs, which were bearing an insignia of a snake/dragon and a sword.) I am thinking elite WoB regiment. But, anyhue. Could be radical, angry doctors. I doubt that the WoB, like the SLDF and Clan Smoke Jaguar before it are truly gone for good.

The fun thing is that each Clan is free to run its own Watch however it chooses. The Sea Fox are merchants...so it is possible to bribe, or hire good infiltrators, etc...maybe they even hired some "ex"-WoB ROM...but, still...the timing works out too good for me.

And, on the point of the ilClan, I will concede that it was an author error in the one sentence in passing in one of the Twilight of the Clan Novels...

Oh...and Clan Wolf is not bound by the Great Refusal, either, as they neither won nor lost their trial, and abstained on the vote in the Grand Council. Vlad Ward said as much.

Sounds like a sore loser to me. Of course, that was what Vlad was from his introduction in the Blood of Kerensky Trilogy straight through to the Great Refusal (and probably beyond).

Of course, the Sea Foxes are highly honorable. They just allow their honor to bend in different ways from the rest of the clans. They have no compunction about taking out a fortified position that was not specifially bid in with the big guns of their naval reserve nor with aerospace strikes. In their opinion, the fortifications were not bid in, so they are fair game to be destroyed by forces that were not bid in. Also, the Sea Foxes, having thrived in the years of peace following the defeat of the WoB Jihad and the formation of the Republic, would have no logical reason to destroy it all. First, it is expensive, second they are not recognized as a Clan by most other Clans, so becoming ilClan would mean nothing to them, as it would only enrage their foes among the Clans. Furthermore, economies boom during times of peace. Especially when the economy of the Sea Foxes has been geared toward peace for a long time. The Sea Foxes do not even have a single planet in their name on which to build a BattleMech (undoubtedly, they probably have one or two Leviathon-class Super Heavy Transports (or similar) with manufacturing facilities for the Tiburon and replacement parts thereof, but nothing substantial). If anyone is the rat, I would be placing money on someone in the Republic (perhaps the next Exarch?) or the Word of Blake.
Oh, yes. And Clan Sea Fox is smart enough not to try something like that. Eventually, whoever did it will be found out. And whoever did it will have the wrath of the entire Inner Sphere down upon their heads. And the Sea Foxes have no need for enemies. In fact, in their line of work, enemies are something you would rather not have.