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What to bring to the pre-release PDS, Kelswa, or Mech
With the pre release specifics, I have had to redo my 150 points for the PR.
My options are: Liao PDS 82, SC /syph 26, Liao tracbikex2 32=148
Pog to drive them to my forces and use the 300 merc build to whittle them down
Option 2 HL Kelswa 104, mecr sniper team24, HL flamer team 14
Kelswa should be a Target of opportunity for opposing mech, then I will use 300 pt Merc build to whittle down opposition
Option 3 vincent deleon 148 Can you say DFA
This is assuming we can build up to 150 points.
Any insight or recommendations on how to improve would be appreciated.
Personally I have been looking at bringing either CJF Kelswa 100 pts and SH Atv Squads x6 48pts.
Or SH Behemoth Tank 104pts and SH Aesir 46pts.
Lastly HL Kelswa 104pts SH Aesir 46pts
Personally I have been looking at bringing either CJF Kelswa 100 pts and SH Atv Squads x6 48pts.
Or SH Behemoth Tank 104pts and SH Aesir 46pts.
Lastly HL Kelswa 104pts SH Aesir 46pts
All of those are illegal, by the way. FP pieces only, no CA.
I expect that the army to beat contains Blitz w/Pashke inside, recruited to JF. JF DFA attacks can be managed under normal circumstances w/cunning use of harrasment infantry, but it should be quite difficult to stop Pashke under these circumstances, especially because his "No Mercy" attack allows him to kill any infantry that you'll see with a single order.
As for the 150 to bring... opinions abound, but I would suggest that you not bring another 'Mech (you'll have to field one of the 'Mechs in the starter no matter what you do.) I know what I'll be bringing, anyway. Keep in mind that many pieces that look great under normal circumstances lose a lot of usefulness in this situation (JF Sylphs are quite solid under the current rules, but they get hit hard by a ranged assault order.) I suggest you bring one tank (Haseks, artillery, and Kelswas all have their points) and fill the rest of your 150 with your favorite infantry. Don't be ashamed to mix factions out of "faction pride"; after all, two factions can't even be fielded at all because they were cut from FP, and the requirement of "a single unit worth at least 50 points" effectively cuts several others out as well.
Artillery will rule the day. Nothing in the starter is an effective counter to artillery.
You will lay 3 two damage pogs and your opponent will move the units effected. The next turn you pog the mech and vehicle that moved (you want to keep the mech heated up and with an action token). When their mech moves into AO range of your mech, you AO it first (it might even have taken 2 damage from artillery at this point.
It may be tempting to just take the Liao Paladin, but there are actually several ways to stop it. As long as my army is mobile enough to get inside of 16", i'll be all right. Note that in your strategy, you're pushing your Paladin early, but you may not have gained anything for that push; I can formation move my infantry & vehicles away w/o taking push damage, and there's lots of reactive/heavy infantry in the starter and in FP that would negate/minimize your strategy. (And there's always the possibility that your opponent will bring AP artillery.)
I'm not saying the Liao Paladin isn't a viable option; I'm just saying that it isn't quite as difficult to deal with as a JF Blitz w/Pashke inside.
And, by the way, they're not "pogs". They're markers, or templates.
So when the infantry push in formation, they will get another pog.
Looking at this again. The starter mechs are the real targets. Damage your opponents mech and your mech should beat it when they get within AO range of each other.
Yes, they could run their mech up the field and then they are totally in range of your AO and you can then base them with one of your infantry (preventing their AO and giving your mech +2 defense).
Artillery will rule the day. Nothing in the starter is an effective counter to artillery.
You will lay 3 two damage pogs and your opponent will move the units effected. The next turn you pog the mech and vehicle that moved (you want to keep the mech heated up and with an action token). When their mech moves into AO range of your mech, you AO it first (it might even have taken 2 damage from artillery at this point.
Both of the starter mechs are viable artillery counters. A JF Sylph (or any other fast unit) kills the possibility of a retaliatory Assault to say nothing of basing up the arty before hand.
I'm concidering H Paladin and 3 H Sniper Teams, 149.
Then from the starter Copperhead with the other pilot Sebastian Paschke (I'm not convinced the special ability was worth the points), then one of the tanks and infantry to fill the rest. One build I liked ended up 301 points, wonder if they'll allow that in my local prerelease... probably not.
So the anti-warpog army must contain sylphs (who will take pushing damage from moving).
Let us know how your mech does aginst artillery in practice games.
Assuming no Sylph, dual mech, support formation of vehicles and infantry. Assuming that the Paladin player is player one and has one mech. My current numbers come out to a little less than 100 points remaining after using the 150 from FP and adding a mech with pilot and faction (for example: Blitz, Paschke, JF faction). That should be enough to build a complete movement formation (5 units).
If the artillery doesn't fire, the mechs move and the formation doesn't start forwards. Or the player decides to take a push for whatever reason.
A single artillery can't damage a mech or movement formation in AoD without the help of a baser to force a breakaway roll (preferably grapple). It can go after units that have already moved (excluding mechs) and VTOLs and single units. It's not quite as devastating (cheaper to use though) as it was.
Plus, assuming that the artillery player pushes forward some intercepting forces, and there's a clash around midfield, both starting mechs have a Assault range of 5, well outside of the traditional 3' pog and even more so outside of 2'. With the FP artillery, there are often hidey holes where the mech cannot be hit by any drift. Both of them have decent enough dials to keep in motion for a while. The potential for Assault to dodge pogs and deal damage all at once makes arty dodging potentially useful.
Right now, I see a bit of a scissors-paper-rock situtation. Kelswa armies will not do well against artillery. Kelswas will give dual mech armies problems. And I think dual mechs will beat up artillery. Naturally, reality will show us who is right and who is dead.
On a side note, make sure your venue enforces the "use the dice in the starter" rule--with the stakes this high, I wouldn't put it past some players to use intentionally/unintentionally loaded dice.
The assault order as an anti-'Mech device is overrated. If your starter 'Mech faces off against mine (and we both have pilots, or neither of us does), on an assault order you need to roll a 12 to hit--less than a 33% chance, and you can't bring those DF faction dice to take the edge off that hard statistic. If I'm in Blitz w/Pashke recruited to JF, I'll let you take your assault order so I can DFA you after. (Even if you hit your AO, I'm still likely to hit you with the DFA and even things up, and my DFA takes less heat than your AO.)
Overall I agree with Highdancer's paper-rock-scissors analysis, despite my feelings about the ranged combat AO. I suspect most games will be decided by the rest of your army, actually--each of these three proposals could sink or swim based on which supporting infantry/vehicles you bring.
Based on your input above, what about two JF long tom 140pts, 2 pogs with 2"in blast radius. This way I can pog every turn without pushing, keeping the pressure on the opposing force and use the Merc recruited to JF finish them off.