So I have been doing the math on Chikako and Dean, and the way I figure it is that with requirtment to any faction (BR being the exception) and the AP CEC card Dean and his mech cost the exact same as the Bounty Hunter. Who is more flexible. The BH has that rainbow dial of death and all, but he also has a nasty triple heat rol on click four, and I have made something of an art of pushing Hunters there, especially with Assault orders being the new thing.

Dean in this particular configuration has an extremely flexible prinmary weapon capable of bot direct and indirect attacks against standard and hardened targets has a much cleaner heat dial and is much more repariable, not to mention the numerous quad advantages. Hitting that the BH has will be a problem, but with an 11 attack if you can con him into 14 inches or if he fails an AO, it can be done.

So is it possible that we have found someone the BH can fear? I will also grant this, against a BH army AP is overkill and not nessicary. So when I look at the other equipment avalible to Assault Mechs I have a list of semi usefull things.

AA Targeting: I havbe seen the BH paired up with at least one Donar before, so if you can plug those things quickly you are going to make the BH player desperate.

ECM: If you can hurt the BH early, maybe with a charge from a JF Stinger he has a 10 attack with IT. Park that SOB into hindering and see how the BH likes dealing with high defenses

CASE: this is only good if you are wreckless. if you have a reasonably undamaged Xanthos though the last thing you want is the capacitors on your Gauss Rifles to go. so if you like to push and push this is your card.

These three are the only usefull peices I could find against a BH army, Flamers is kinda silly on a quad due to the CC rule, and Things are to close for my taste if you have to use the Xanthos' lasers. Anti Personel is not that grand against a BH army because if he does ATV swarm you, you can not deliver full damage to the two targets you have and only a fool would put those atvs in base contact with each other.

Ideas Questions miscalculations??? hit me with your best shot

If you do a little bit more research you will find that Dean is not the best pilot for Xanthos. In fact, He's really just sub par in a comparitive sense.

Why?

Dean's ability isn't all that great on a mech that already breaks on a 3+ anyway.
Xanthos has streaks so attacks can easily be made without fear of getting in base with oppossing units to begin with. In other words, Chikako can create situations where an opponent basing it is unlikely and difficult. Most importantly, the number 1 harrassing/basing mechanic has always been infantry basing. Which Quads ignore to begin with.

So essentially you are paying like 20+ points for an ability that is better suited on a Biped mech.

There are 2 pilots that perform much better for a fraction of Dean's cost.

Gabriel Smith- +1 Speed,+2 Attack,+1 Defense
Enrico Fernali- +2 Attack, +1 Defense

In fact, this has been discussed semi thouroughly already in the strat thread w/Trev/Mid/Will.

The natural 12 attack for several clicks, followed by an 11 attack with IT is just phenomenal for the combined point cost. Gabriel Smith is the better of the 2 because he adds +1 to speed (being a 'quad' pilot). Either in Xanthos cost less than than 260 points. Chikako without a pilot is amazingly durable and has 10 or higher attack w/ 3 damage or more for longer than most mechs live. Chikako also keeps a high speed (especially when Smith is piloting) until dead. Chikako also only has 1 click of Death meaning without a pilot at 211 points, Chikako is the most durable mech for his point cost.

With the Chikako/Smith combo already as good as it is, there is no sense in adding any of the useless Assault gear. Not that the Assault gear is useless just that it is expensive and not needed on a mech that already has lots of things going for it for a relatively inexpensive Assault class point cost. Points are better spent on LE combat engineers and/or more support to contend with other threats.

The bottom line is that Deans ability is nice, just not worth the cost. 9 times out of 10, a Chikako/Smith army will trump a Chikako/Dean army based on the point spread alone (not too mention, the added attack bonuses).


So now you have a Mech/pilot combo for a little under 260 points that, IMO, is slightlybetter than Bounty Hunter despite BH's point cost being well over 60 more points. And easily better than Chikako/Dean.

Nice one.

I meant to say Chikako with Smith is amazingly durable and has a 10 or higher attack w/3 damage for longer than most mechs live.

I'm not sure about you're point that flamers don't work, as SEC over rides the rule book and flamers allow a melee attack on seondary (if that's where they are), so I'd say that flamers actualy give the quad mech a secondary melee attack rather than not being able to be used.

Well normally I would agree with you about that but the truth is that the only Pilots that can handle Chikato are assault pilots, and since Quad pilots can only contribute to a Quads speed I will take either Dean or Gabriel. The others can add to defense and attack values but I value speed, and the ability to out range a mech so Dean gets my pick

wait, I'm confused. Smith IS a quad assault pilot. And Smith is statistically,without a doubt, the superior of the 2, with or without Dean's ability. And Smith adds +1 to speed as well.

Nevermind.


Smith/Chikako needs a 12 to hit BH, an 11 to hit Dean/Chikako for 10 points less. Same assault order range. Dean needs a 13 to hit BH, a 12 to hit Smith/Chikako. For 10 points more.

Dean's ability is not worth the -1 to attack and the 10 extra points. For fun, yeah, its worth it. But your thread does suggest the Bounty Hunter is to be afraid. If so,would not a 12 attack scare the Bounty Hunter more than an 11 attack?

Having run Chikako in a few test games now (once with Sohnle, and twice with Gabe), I can pretty much back up everything sonicyouth's sayin'. Sohnle's ability is kinda cool (in fact, it's deceptively powerful), but it's not the be-all, end-all of pilot special abilities. The problem is that his ability doesn't override the SEC, so Grapple infantry still locks him down, and Jump Jets/Evade still break away on their usual 2+. Now, if that were different, then I'd be singing his praises from the freaking rooftops. But as it is, Chikako/Gabe Smith is such a powerful offensive force all on its own, you really don't need anything else. No fancy pilot abilities, no gear. Just run Chikako and Gabe, play Mountain Range as your Planetary Condition, and rain down death.

The question is what to support the 'Mech with, or any Assault 'Mech, really. Back in the day, it was a natural to bring DF Donars with your badass 'Mech, but now that over a dozen 'Mechs outrange the Donar (and other VTOLs ignore its Height Advantage modifier), that idea's been hosed pretty bad. Harassers (read: ATVs and TrackBikes) are a given, but you really need one other offensive hammer. Way I figure it, you can't go much worse than a good tankdrop. And since we already know we're taking Mountain Range, why not bring something that takes advantage of all that blocking?

"Chikako" - Xanthos - 211 pts.
>Pilot Card: Gabriel Smith - 46 pts.
:^^^: (SH) JESII Missile Carrier - 90 pts.
:^: Zahn Heavy Transport - 30 pts.
:^: Scout ATV Squad x5 - 40 pts.
Faction Pride Card: Stormhammers - 15 pts.
Mercenary Contract Card: House Steiner-Stormhammers - 15 pts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: 447 pts.

Well, it certainly ain't perfect (going 447 just kills me. Combine the two cards with that underage, and my opponent gets a juicy 33 extra points on me to start the game. What a crock), but it's #### good. Chikako and the JES pretty much ensure that you'll be lighting up anything that comes within your range. Just hide behind the blocking, take your potshots, soften up their 'Mech, and go home.

Although really, Chikako doesn't need a faction recruit. He's perfectly sufficient on his own, and the person that can come up with the best support for him will probably win a lot of games under AoD rules.

I would think he would me more afraid of Ms Kerensky with streak SE with the Wolves/Stormhammer faction pride card. There really is no good way to deal with that threat, even as bad an idea as charging her is, it still might be the best option.

@darkarchon0.

Keep in mind one of the shortcomings of quads is they can only do 1 damage in close combat. For quads with a 0" min this isn't an issue. But for those that do have a min they might get a big annoyed when swarmed with a half dozen battle armor ... esp if one of them is a grappler. Remember ... flamers add +1 damage to vehicle and infantry targets so this is a way to (slightly) get around the damage restriction imposed on quads for close combat. You dish out 1 damage and flamers adds one more. Isn't a whole lot ... but at least it cuts down on the amount of time needed to swat something that's trying to pester you. Plus consider it an added incentive to your opponent NOT to charge you. If you have a borderline defense but outrange his assault order range then naturally he might attempt to do a charge first instead if he has a better run than your AO range ... but if you're mounting flamers ... he might think twice about it. Even if he starts with no tokens and low in his heat dial he'll be nice and toasty after the charge ... and being in that condition next to a unit with flamers is generally not a good thing. High heat + additional heat from flamers = shutdown = death. :) Yeah ... I can think of better SECs to spend the points on in most cases for quads ... but I wouldn't call flamers totally worthless.

What do you think about this? (I built this out of the stuff I have :))
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique "Alpha" - Mangonel - 185 pts.
>Pilot Card: Anastasia Kerensky - 44 pts.
>Gear: Streak Missiles - 38 pts.
1X :^^^: (SH) R10 Mechanized ICV - 52 pts.
3X :^: (SH)Towed Gauss Rifle - 54 pts.
:^: (SH) Scout ATV Squad x4 - 32 pts.
1X :^^: (SW)Infiltrator Battle Armor - 15 pts.
Situational Alliance: Steel Wolves - Stormhammer - 30 pts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: 450 pts.

You can give Alpha a 18 inch standing range, or an unholy assault order range :), and Anna as the pilot makes charging it a bad idea.

First I would like to apologise for the mis calculation, For some reason I thought smith was the LE Phoenix Hawks pilot and, well I just got mixed up. I feel liek a goofball now. :confused:

My problem is that I do not have smith as well. I am also looking at deans requiting cost. He can get pumped intop any faction for a measly 9 points. I have been looking into Clan Sea Fox as a possibility, both for the pummel you out of salvage and take your mech parts abilities. Clan Jade Falcon has some benifits by parking in Hindering, getting the hul down and being able to Shoot OUT at no penalty, thanks to EI.

Like I said I apologise for being aa dumbass about the pilot thing (What the hell was I thinking) and I see your point. Now I just need to find smith. (feels the Karma of the boosters) in the meantime I wiill keep doing dean armies. Peace

No need to apologize. I think you right on with your analysis of Chikako! Chikako is awesome. My favorite Assault mech right now because he can take the damage and still deal it.


Itrain mentions Alpha. The only problem with Alpha is that either way you look at it. Whether self inflicting pog damage or SW FP,or SU evade it takes a turn or 2 to 'beef up'. Chikako will then most likely corner/trap Alpha and get first strike and with a 12 attack(11 with AO), hitting Alpha would take her past AP, most likely into a 3 damage slot. At which point Chikako can play clean up.
So the Alpha player has to be more careful those first few turns. Regardless if playing against Chikako or not. A ranged assault order just covers most of the battle field immediately, meaning, a second turn AO can cover "anywhere" on the battlefield. Since Chikako ignores infantry, its more difficult for an opponent to keep a quad from executing an AO. So an Alpha army will have to either chase down Chikako with a mech or a vehicle. In either instance this will result in huge attrition losses for the opponent. That mech or vehicle will be in the opponents 1/2 of the board and well outnumbered. Even if Alpha was to get first strike (with Streaks gear) Chikako/Smith would still have an 11 attack with IT and 4 damage. And because of a 3' x 3' play area limits where Alpha can assault from, Alpha will still most likely be in Chikako/Smiths AO range of 19". So Alpha WILL take 4 damage putting her at a very vulnerable slot, At which point support units could finish Alpha off. Chikako only has 1 click of death and 1 click of salvage, meaning Chikako would probably win the attrition race. I like Alpha, a great mech, but she is 'front ended' and needs to be supported perfectly.